Getting started drawing on procreate in 2021?

Chujybear

Elite Cafe Member
Joined
Nov 3, 2011
Messages
975
Location
Haida Gwaii
we are in the middle of a pandemic sam.

you have an HD camera but wont produce new blu rays why? not trying to be rude but you guys are stuck in the 1900s. You have deep relief engraving being done with lasers now at a fraction of the cost and labor. You really need to try a bit harder than "search the forum" and "all the info is here" when it clearly isnt. I know many of you are trying to run teaching businesses and cant give out info for free , but you should think about producing real content for beginners that is not "search the forum". You used to produce content on youtube but that stopped.

And while im venting i guess i should mention the exact same machines GRS is selling on their website at prohibitive inflated pricing can be obtained from the original source (china) online for 200 bucks. but you wont tell beginners that. Instead they need a car payment to get started in a hobby right?

I already spent quite a bit on tools already and it seems that the only way i can really participate in this hobby is by shelling out tons more money on live training that i cant access because of the pandemic , or low quality DVD's that are marked up 150%

Sorry for the rudeness but i have been trying to break into this hobby and its just extremely prohibitive. And it doesnt have to be since i know you are technically proficient and can produce real content for beginners at extreme quality without devaluing your teaching business. In fact quick , informative videos can get people in the door.

I would HEAVILY consider , especially since we are starting the year with president pandemic and could be shut down nation wide soon , you hit the ground running on producing content again for free for beginners sam that can pipeline them into GRS. And if you do. Just make sure its on HD format?

Start with a 5-10 minute youtube on quickly setting up procreate and drawing a simple scroll. Something like that cant kill you can it? Blu rays in 1080p or even 4k (especially the latter) will be valueble for 100 years because the maximum detail the eye can pick up is somewhere between 4k and 8k. DVD's are already not worth the plastic they are printed on.

rant/off

bad year for me and my family
The folk in this forum are extremely generous , and the videos are cheap for the value they bring. You aren’t owed anything here. You’ve had a bad year? Look around. It’s been a bad year.
 

Sam

Chief Administrator & Benevolent Dictator
Staff member
Joined
Nov 6, 2006
Messages
10,416
Location
Covington, Louisiana
we are in the middle of a pandemic sam.

you have an HD camera but wont produce new blu rays why? not trying to be rude but you guys are stuck in the 1900s. You have deep relief engraving being done with lasers now at a fraction of the cost and labor. You really need to try a bit harder than "search the forum" and "all the info is here" when it clearly isnt. I know many of you are trying to run teaching businesses and cant give out info for free , but you should think about producing real content for beginners that is not "search the forum". You used to produce content on youtube but that stopped.

And while im venting i guess i should mention the exact same machines GRS is selling on their website at prohibitive inflated pricing can be obtained from the original source (china) online for 200 bucks. but you wont tell beginners that. Instead they need a car payment to get started in a hobby right?

I already spent quite a bit on tools already and it seems that the only way i can really participate in this hobby is by shelling out tons more money on live training that i cant access because of the pandemic , or low quality DVD's that are marked up 150%

Sorry for the rudeness but i have been trying to break into this hobby and its just extremely prohibitive. And it doesnt have to be since i know you are technically proficient and can produce real content for beginners at extreme quality without devaluing your teaching business. In fact quick , informative videos can get people in the door.

I would HEAVILY consider , especially since we are starting the year with president pandemic and could be shut down nation wide soon , you hit the ground running on producing content again for free for beginners sam that can pipeline them into GRS. And if you do. Just make sure its on HD format?

Start with a 5-10 minute youtube on quickly setting up procreate and drawing a simple scroll. Something like that cant kill you can it? Blu rays in 1080p or even 4k (especially the latter) will be valueble for 100 years because the maximum detail the eye can pick up is somewhere between 4k and 8k. DVD's are already not worth the plastic they are printed on.

rant/off

bad year for me and my family

First off, GRS tools are made in Kansas and not China. The crap you see from China is reverse engineered junk, of which many are counterfeit as well. So get your facts straight.

Actually, I don't think engraving is for you to be quite honest. It's one of the most difficult art forms, and it requires dedication, very hard work, and perseverance. And I'm not seeing any of that in your posts. You have to really want it and be willing to slog through anything to get it. Procreate won't help you, fancy tools won't help you. High resolution templates won't help you. If you can't prove yourself with a simple pencil and sketchpad, then it's time to move onto to something else.

It was a bad year for many families, not just yours.
 

ByrnBucks

Member
Joined
Dec 25, 2020
Messages
53
Location
Chattanooga, TN
First off, GRS tools are made in Kansas and not China. The crap you see from China is reverse engineered junk, of which many are counterfeit as well. So get your facts straight.

Actually, I don't think engraving is for you to be quite honest. It's one of the most difficult art forms, and it requires dedication, very hard work, and perseverance. And I'm not seeing any of that in your posts. You have to really want it and be willing to slog through anything to get it. Procreate won't help you, fancy tools won't help you. High resolution templates won't help you. If you can't prove yourself with a simple pencil and sketchpad, then it's time to move onto to something else.

It was a bad year for many families, not just yours.
Dear Mr. Alfano,
I was fortunate enough to receive one of your excellent and priceless instructional DVDs this week. I have been traveling a solitary path of self discover, fumbling in the dark if you will, into the world of engraving. This site and your video have served as a beacon of light to whom only a man standing in the darkness can truly appreciate its warm embrace, that could so easily be lost on whom eyes are shut or blinded by the false beauty of this digital world. Thank you and all others for sharing your gift of knowledge with those of us who appreciate it.
Dustin Byrn
 

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Sam

Chief Administrator & Benevolent Dictator
Staff member
Joined
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Messages
10,416
Location
Covington, Louisiana
Dear Mr. Alfano,
I was fortunate enough to receive one of your excellent and priceless instructional DVDs this week. I have been traveling a solitary path of self discover, fumbling in the dark if you will, into the world of engraving. This site and your video have served as a beacon of light to whom only a man standing in the darkness can truly appreciate its warm embrace, that could so easily be lost on whom eyes are shut or blinded by the false beauty of this digital world. Thank you and all others for sharing your gift of knowledge with those of us who appreciate it.
Dustin Byrn
Hi Dustin. It looks like you're off to a really good start. I know very well the path you've been on. I was on it myself from 1970 to 1980, fumbling around with homemade chisels, not a clue as to how to sharpen or handle them, and no one willing or interested in sharing how to do so. I bought my first real gravers mail order in 1973 and that helped a bit, but not much. When Meek's book came out it put wind in my sales and got me on the right path. After some incredibly fortunately breaks I'd gotten, I vowed to make information accessible so others could get moving and not have to bump into the walls I (and you) did. FEGA did this as well.

Enjoy the journey! It's one of the most satisfying and rewarding forms of art there is :)
 

John B.

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3,580
Location
Los Angeles area, California.
Well said and well done Dustin. Your posted engravings may not be perfect at this time, but they show
a lot of promise.
Remember, you have some great engravers in TN and reach out to them when possible..
Scott Pilkington holds a free Engrave In most normal years.
Lots of help, info and fellowship and fun there.
Lets see some more of your work.
 
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Sky

Member
Joined
Nov 15, 2018
Messages
67
Location
Nevada County Ca
Sam like I posted earlier your videos and this site has helped me tremendously and put food on my table. I’ve not been able to ever attend a class so all I’ve had is these videos and this site. I have to admit this guy actually got me upset. I just would not want for you and all those others whom contribute as you all do to believe what that lazy individual says. cheers and thank all of you
 
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Sam

Chief Administrator & Benevolent Dictator
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Joined
Nov 6, 2006
Messages
10,416
Location
Covington, Louisiana
Sam like I posted earlier your videos and this site has helped me tremendously and put food on my table. I’ve not been able to ever attend a class so all I’ve had is these videos and this site. I have to admit this guy actually got me upset. I just would not want for you and all those others whom contribute as you all do to believe what that lazy individual says. cheers and thank all of you

Thanks for your support :) It's much appreciated.
 

tinkerSue

Member
Joined
Nov 14, 2015
Messages
5
Location
The LBC
Then find an engraver who will teach you. Try looking over his/her shoulder while they're cutting and try to connect the dots. If you were in my studio, my HD camera would be outputting to a display, but that probably wouldn't suit you.

You have the gift of this forum and the gift of thousands of engravers who share their work and helpful tips. Sounds to me like there's no way of pleasing you.
You are too kind.
 

edgrabow15

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SHIRLEY, LONG ISLAND . N.Y.
I swear I’ve never heard anyone complain as much as you, sounds like you would be better off buying one of those lazer engravers you claim do much a great job . You’ve just sat there and outright insulted everything about this art that the rest of us love, you go buy one of those Chinese machines, get a towel dry your eyes and have fun learning by yourself, with your attitude I doubt you’ll get anyone to help you with anything. To all my fellow engravers on this site I apologize if I was hard and you want me banned for what I just did but this guy needs a good dose of reality and someone to tell him what he needs to hear, not what’s he wants to hear like the ways it obviously always been for him his whole life. Sam I apologize to you if i put you in a bad position on this great site of yours, wasn’t my intention,
 

Goldjockey

Elite Cafe Member
Joined
May 17, 2018
Messages
215
I swear I’ve never heard anyone complain as much as you, sounds like you would be better off buying one of those lazer engravers you claim do much a great job . You’ve just sat there and outright insulted everything about this art that the rest of us love, you go buy one of those Chinese machines, get a towel dry your eyes and have fun learning by yourself, with your attitude I doubt you’ll get anyone to help you with anything. To all my fellow engravers on this site I apologize if I was hard and you want me banned for what I just did but this guy needs a good dose of reality and someone to tell him what he needs to hear, not what’s he wants to hear like the ways it obviously always been for him his whole life. Sam I apologize to you if i put you in a bad position on this great site of yours, wasn’t my intenton.
Honestly, for someone with limited or no hand engraving or drawing skills, owning a laser engraver is no better than owning a door stop.
 

R.Quecke

Member
Joined
Mar 31, 2019
Messages
56
Location
Northern CA
This post bums me out.
Not everyone is made for what it is they have an interest in.

Here’s the thing, I have been a working artist creating and making every day for 20 years. I was showing long before that also. I have been drawing everyday of my life since i could. I, like most self employed people know that you must work hard and nothing is or should be handed to you. I always wanted to engrave, for the past 15 years i had wanted to. 2 years ago, i worked hard,i finally saved up, and bought the tools needed. Yes, i spent a bit. But, if you’re gonna make it work, its a investment in yourself. No one told me what tools to buy, what tools not to buy. What books, dvds, nothing. I did my homework. I don’t understand how and why its so hard for people. I haven’t taken any classes, and have not had any sort of personal instruction, like “hey, don’t do it that way, you’re doing it wrong”. A few of Sam’s dvds have been worth their technical weight in gold. I have also been buying as many books as i can find on the subject of engraving because i know how important good references and knowledge is. No 4K dvd is gonna teach you to draw a good backbone, and certainly no program will either. If you can’t on paper, you wont be able to. I have scoured these forums for information, from the first posts to the most recent. Be thankful its there.

Asking someone to redo their videos is just absurd. I don’t even want to know how much was actually recorded and how long the editing took, i mean, I guess time isn’t valuable and can be replenished, right?…... This argument that its all will be useless is wild. If you offered me a damn Betamax of Nimschke, Churchill or Coogan, actively engraving, I’d buy it, and find a Betamax player and I know I’m not alone in this thought (nor is this thought restricted to this field). It’s the information thats priceless. You wont learn composition from a program or a 4K video. I constantly see these arguments that the tools are expensive, classes are expensive, books are expensive. So what, life is expensive. I can’t draw this, what program draws it for me. You want it, work hard for it. Regardless of what the obstacles are. Ive been on my own and working since i was 12. No excuses, no sympathy here. Just a product of hard work and perseverance.

@Sam, i am very thankful for the information you put out there and your forum. I appreciate all on these forums and the people involved, that have shared the information they worked hard to achieve. (I am now reminded that i need to buy the McKenzie dvd transferred from the vhs and ill study every moment of it).

I am amazed and thankful to be a part of engraving.

I don’t post on here often, but i do read it daily.

I guess ill end it like everyone else.

Rant over.

Ill include a few pics of what 2 years of working hard at something and studying looks like without 4K.
 

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707chrisa

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May 11, 2021
Messages
59
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Humboldt Ca.
LOL Blue Ray sooo yesterday . Just down load it from the cloud in HD .I don't need the coaster. Even if Blue ray gets to the one TB it's over kill. If Sam or any other teacher wants to upload in HD they can , they can use smoke signals if they want and I will give it a look and if I like it I will use it HD or not.
 

Matthew Evans

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::::Pledge Member::::
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Messages
250
Location
Northwest Florida
It’s true that there will be people out there that will never be pleased, but that is far from what we are here for. This cafe and what comes from it is just a reflection of people’s life’s work, struggles, and victories. Engraving in its modern form is high risk high reward at least in my eyes because it takes so long to get to where it can be appreciated, not necessarily just your mom saying how good you did.

I am grateful for people being so open and still taking that risk to teach. If it were me, I know at times, a cabin in the middle of nowhere and saying goodbye to all the noise would be preferred.

Instead of having our hands out for more which I am guilty of as well, The question is how can we give back to something that has more depth and value now more than ever. Thank you Sam Alfano, thank you moderators, thank you to fega who revived and brought together great people, I hope that in a world that has lost its mind that the cafe can continue to be a place where we can enjoy, let our hair down (if you don’t have hair than you are ahead of the curve), and have fun.
-Always Learning
Matthew Evans
Idle Hands Engraving
 

Sky

Member
Joined
Nov 15, 2018
Messages
67
Location
Nevada County Ca
This post bums me out.
Not everyone is made for what it is they have an interest in.

Here’s the thing, I have been a working artist creating and making every day for 20 years. I was showing long before that also. I have been drawing everyday of my life since i could. I, like most self employed people know that you must work hard and nothing is or should be handed to you. I always wanted to engrave, for the past 15 years i had wanted to. 2 years ago, i worked hard,i finally saved up, and bought the tools needed. Yes, i spent a bit. But, if you’re gonna make it work, its a investment in yourself. No one told me what tools to buy, what tools not to buy. What books, dvds, nothing. I did my homework. I don’t understand how and why its so hard for people. I haven’t taken any classes, and have not had any sort of personal instruction, like “hey, don’t do it that way, you’re doing it wrong”. A few of Sam’s dvds have been worth their technical weight in gold. I have also been buying as many books as i can find on the subject of engraving because i know how important good references and knowledge is. No 4K dvd is gonna teach you to draw a good backbone, and certainly no program will either. If you can’t on paper, you wont be able to. I have scoured these forums for information, from the first posts to the most recent. Be thankful its there.

Asking someone to redo their videos is just absurd. I don’t even want to know how much was actually recorded and how long the editing took, i mean, I guess time isn’t valuable and can be replenished, right?…... This argument that its all will be useless is wild. If you offered me a damn Betamax of Nimschke, Churchill or Coogan, actively engraving, I’d buy it, and find a Betamax player and I know I’m not alone in this thought (nor is this thought restricted to this field). It’s the information thats priceless. You wont learn composition from a program or a 4K video. I constantly see these arguments that the tools are expensive, classes are expensive, books are expensive. So what, life is expensive. I can’t draw this, what program draws it for me. You want it, work hard for it. Regardless of what the obstacles are. Ive been on my own and working since i was 12. No excuses, no sympathy here. Just a product of hard work and perseverance.

@Sam, i am very thankful for the information you put out there and your forum. I appreciate all on these forums and the people involved, that have shared the information they worked hard to achieve. (I am now reminded that i need to buy the McKenzie dvd transferred from the vhs and ill study every moment of it).

I am amazed and thankful to be a part of engraving.

I don’t post on here often, but i do read it daily.

I guess ill end it like everyone else.

Rant over.

Ill include a few pics of what 2 years of working hard at something and studying looks like without 4K.
I’m right there with you. You just stated my exact situation so strange so right on correct. Respectfully Sky “Paul Bass”
 

Sam

Chief Administrator & Benevolent Dictator
Staff member
Joined
Nov 6, 2006
Messages
10,416
Location
Covington, Louisiana
This thread is a few months old, and perhaps the OP was looking for reasons to blame his inadequacies on. In any event, that mindset keeps you firmly anchored in the mud with little chance to advance. Every person starting out has a few hundred bad scrolls in them they have to draw and engrave out. The sooner you get started the sooner they start becoming acceptable. There's just no way around that. You must develop your eye, fine tune your pencil, and tame your graver into submission.
 

Brant

Elite Cafe Member
Joined
Feb 6, 2014
Messages
195
Location
Chicago suburbs
You must develop your eye, fine tune your pencil, and tame your graver into submission.

And thank all the very generous people on these forums that so freely give advise and encouragement.

Thanks you gents and ladies.

Brant
 
Joined
Mar 19, 2012
Messages
89
With all due respect,
you aren't trying to break into the hobby, it is not prohibitive, the fact that you think learning procreate is the solution to "learn" is appalling.
the fact that you are diminishing and outright dismissin all of what's on the forum because the quality is not enough for you is, to put it simply, insulting to all the mebers.
I worked 3 jobs for one year and i moved to two different countries to learn this thing, bought all my equipment piece by piece, used, with the money i made with the previous equipment.

Ipad, procreate, fancy palm controlled gravers, top notch vises and benches..
they just make your life easier..
and they are designed for people that take engraving seriously.

it takes 500$ to get started in this "hobby":
3 gravers, wooden handles, sharpening stones, pitch, spare wood and a sandbag.
buy practice plates.
that is literally all you need.

that is literally what most of humanity used for centuries as faras engraving goes.

there is plenty of full fledged masters here on this forum that have started from nothing, using only the resources available here.

my Teacher would probably tell you one simple phrase:

Toughen up, kiddo!

and enough with the excuses. it's going to take you 5 years before you stop thinking about your hand, then you can worry about procreate and the best part of masterfully done engraving: DESIGN

I wish you luck on your endeavours, but this is definitely not the right frame of mind for this "hobby"

S.
 

edgrabow15

:::Pledge Member:::
::::Pledge Member::::
Joined
Nov 16, 2018
Messages
169
Location
SHIRLEY, LONG ISLAND . N.Y.
This thread is a few months old, and perhaps the OP was looking for reasons to blame his inadequacies on. In any event, that mindset keeps you firmly anchored in the mud with little chance to advance. Every person starting out has a few hundred bad scrolls in them they have to draw and engrave out. The sooner you get started the sooner they start becoming acceptable. There's just no way around that. You must develop your eye, fine tune your pencil, and tame your graver into submission.
I just figured out what this guys number one complaint is . He found out that you don’t get a “ participation trophy “ for engraving and with that automatically get the same exact respect as a Master Engraver so the new guys feelings don't get hurt.
 

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