Gold over kill

[rayf24]

I maybe opening myself up to a telling off here and dont wish to offend anyone but lately there it seems that unless work has gold inlay it not up to standard there has been so many fine examples of engraving with no gold or just a small amount ie a fine boarder that makes the rest stand out. Or is it that I just have old school eyes, thats not to say that I done like the work and god knows I cant engrave to the standard of some of this work, but I do know what is well done and what is average when I look at it.
It just seems OTT in some cases like it's hiding the beauty of the cutting and shading or the artistic talent in the design, having said that what thourghts do others have on this subject.
Regards to all
Ray

 

[Sam]

Ray: Personally, I like a bit of inlaid gold, but I'm also quite happy with engraving with no gold. On the other hand, many customers want gold in gun and knife engraving jobs. In fact, some custom knife collectors are much less likely to buy a piece unless it's got inlaid gold. Gold inlay doesn't change the quality of an engraving job. It can't make mediocre engraving good engraving, so whether something's average or well done isn't going to change by adding gold. And as far as old school goes, the lavish use of inlaid gold in firearms is certainly nothing new, as seen in this Gustav Young engraved Colt. I guess it all boils down to tasteful use.

 

[SamW]

It often depends on the customer. Most of my customers are not enamored with gold and like the scroll and steel sculpture route and I rather enjoy that kind of work. I always thought that Mike Dubber does an outstanding job of using and designing very well balanced amounts of gold in his work. Of course Coggan can cover it with gold and make it look just right but few have that talent.

 

[JJ Roberts]

Ray,I engrave mainly sporting arms and my clients never get asked about gold inlays, and thats OK with me.With the price of gold to day it would be a hard sell and a hard sell is'nt going to work for me.Ray your not offending me at all. J.J.

 

[mitch]

Ray-

You've brought up a subject that I've been meaning to discuss for some time now. The use of gold, both yellow and its multi-colored variations, is obviously a matter of personal taste (or lack thereof, as the case may be), but I do try to observe some rules in its application.

#1. A yellow line or figure is NOT inherently more beautiful/artistic/valuable than a black or grey one.

#2. Gold should add something to the design, not merely provide random* splashes of color in a crude attempt to add richness through the vulgar addition of precious metal. For example, imho, gold should be used where the color differentiation accentuates the separation of a line/figure from the background or surrounding areas/figures.

#3. Using gold to represent elements that actually are yellow(ish) in the real world is fine, but has largely been done to death. We've all inlaid the obligatory sunsets, daffodils, leopards, wolves' eyes, buxom babe's golden tresses, etc. As they say in show business: "It's been done." But as another show biz adage goes, "There are no new jokes, only new audiences", so as long as clients keep asking for it, we'll keep doing it. And to be fair, it can look pretty cool when done well and the effect isn't stretched too far. Try to use a little restraint- this trick can easily turn into a predictable cliché.

#4. Gold lettering. This gets a bit of leeway because it can have an actual functional purpose. A gold "SAFE" or "FIRE", etc., does heighten visibility, while adding a deluxe touch. Also, try to apply the foregoing suggestions/guidelines when doing gold lettering, as well. Don't just slap it in to turn plain characters yellow, use the color difference to your advantage. Make the gold 'pop!' with fine outlines & drop shadows.

#5. *Getting back to the "random splashes of color" mentioned in #2 above... One of the all-too-common practices I've seen over the years is the tendency to inlay leaf elements in scroll on an entirely random basis. There appears to be no discernible coherent design scheme whatsoever. Some leaves, or bits of leaves/scrolls, are mysteriously rendered in gold for no apparent reason other than the engraver and/or client just thought a touch of shiny yellow metal would look good thrown in willy-nilly. I've often wondered how the inlays were determined- by enlarging the drawing and throwing darts? Imagine your engraving design is like painting a house in 3 colors. You wouldn't randomly paint a few shutters & a door yellow, do a bit of trim here & there in dark grey, and leave the rest light grey, would you?

anyway, my 2¢...

 

[Ray Cover]

I agree with everything stated so far. I tend to be one who likes gold inlay. I like the way it looks and I enjoy working with it. That being said some of my favorite works have had no or little gold in them. This past year I have done several pieces with very little or no gold.

To address Mitch's item #5. I have noticed the same thing. What I think is going on with that is a lack of true understanding when it comes to the principle of balance as it applies to engraving design. I see a lot of engravings where I can tell the designer really does not understand balance completely. They have the rudimentary concept that weight should be evenly spaced so not to look top heavy or look to heavy on one side or the other. However, they are missing the subtle nuances of balance while at the same time making balance the Primary design principle and ignoring other design principles like making the scroll pattern flow.

There are design concepts that play into balance beyond just an even physical distribution of parts. There are lines that are invisible called implied lines that have visual weight even though you cannot see them. There is the concept of implied force that can give some empty/negative spaces more visual weight than others. This is way to complex to cover in a forum thread and more than I want to tear into today. But I would encourage folks to take a Principles of Design class at their local college or trade school. Not a drawing class but a design class.

What happens with the random spattering of color Mitch mentioned is that it takes away from the flow of the scroll and has a camouflage effect. The way camouflage works is to break up your outline making it harder to pick out he silhouette of a human against the background. When gold is applied using the idea that the gold "parts" have to be physically distributed throughout the design (and that is the only concept they are paying attention to) the gold tends to break up the outline and destroys the flow of the engraving instead of enhancing it. What the engraver should do instead is be more selective and less mechanical in their thinking and chose areas to inlay that actually enhance the flow and overall look of the design.

 

[jerrywh]

I think it has a lot to do with the type of gun your working on. On something like a sharps I think it must be used very sparingly but on something like a 18th century European presentation gun it is a mandate. Anything can be overdone.
Too much coverage looks bad to me. When a gun is completely covered with design it looks a little like wallpaper. Just my opinion.

 

[rayf24]

Mitch / Ray And others you have put into words exactlly what I was trying to say only you have done it better.
I would be the first to say its great if that balance is right but of late I see more and more use that just doesn't look right or over powers the rest of the work as jerry said (I think it must be used very sparingly) often makes the work look of greater value, than when over used or in poor design or even worse when the design and quality of the cutting is of the highest standard.
ray

 

[mullerforge]

My customers want gold! For personal ownership and resale, I like to work with it as long as they are paying.

 

[Andrew Biggs]

I think it depends on a lot of things. Personal taste, customer demand, perceived value and all the rest of it. It's just different strokes for different folks.

You are seeing various levels of work on the forum. Beginners that tend to go overboard because they need the practice and need to develop the eye. Intermediate that generally start showing good design sense. Advanced that is normally very well done and beautifully executed................ And of course there is the Gods, like our good friends Alain and Phil that are masters of gold work and something to aspire to.

In Reno, Jerry stole a march on the awards with his flintlock double gun that had about 300lbs of gold in it..................and it was to die for.

Cheers
Andrew

 

[Gemsetterchris]

Lets take two wedding rings, one plain steel & one plain cast gold.

The boring gold one will sell with 10hrs worth of designing & engraving without too much trouble, but the steel ring?
Something like this would need abit of gold just to even give it a fighting chance of gaining a percieved value.

Very few people in Europe are daft enough to pay for expensive embellishment unless the object has something expensive attatched to it.. engraving alone is not enough generally.

Even world class engravers in Europe would struggle to sell their work on a cheap canvas without some kind of addition the customer (average joe) can relate to.

There are exceptions of course but this is probably a reason expensive hand engraving can be a bit problematic to sell to the general public (at least thats how i see things).:thinking:

 

[Andrew Biggs]

Hey Chris

Good to see you back and participating again

Cheers
Andrew

 

[RoycroftRon]

Wow, good thread. A good read for someone who just starting out and is just putting the inlays into practice at this point (but should be considering it if the design warrants)

Thanks for the insight.

 

[Gemsetterchris]

Having chewed over it abit more, i think adding a little gold to a cheap item helps whereas on a more expensive item it`s just a question of what you or the customer decides.

How would adding too much bling to a cheap item work i wonder?

Would a cheap spyderco swamped in gold inlay/diamonds & engraving sell for what it would need to fetch? or do people still mentally see a cheap spyderco under all the bling & wonder why on earth you bothered??

Back on the subject of overdoing things... i think there has to be a balance between how much you do & the items value (apart from looking nice).

 

[diandwill]

Of course there is always Arnaud and his stunning Titanium engravings. He stated that he almost has quit working in gold because in Belgium the precious metal is a hard sell. The engraving on Titanium could be sold for the time spent engraving, with no metal mark-up!

 

[Gemsetterchris]

Alternative metals have been doing well for a while, once the precious stuff gets back to a more sensible price peoples tastes will change & Titatnium/steel & everything else may well be a past fashion again.

 

[kguns]

If your client wants a LOT of gold this is a great option.

 

[Andrew Biggs]

Beautiful work Kurt!!

Cheers
Andrew

 

[rayf24]

NOW THATS A TASTEFUL USE OF GOLD
It screams quality / class and executed to a high standard the first thing you see is the engraving before what I hope is inlay of a very high standard.
Now that floats my boat love it :clapping: :clapping:

Thank you kurt