Graver Metallurgy

[Doc Mark]

The recent post by Brian H. got me thinking. I have been struggling with a new engraving on some ridiculously tough unknown type of stainless. It was breaking the tips off of every graver that I owned. I mean, within 15-20 seconds, SNAP goes the tip! Even my favorite Cobalt gravers were no match at 60 degree faces, 120 degree heels and dubbed tips! So I decided to order some Carbide blanks. Tough little buggers to grind away the excess, but they are at least holding their points in the stainless, so far anyway. All this started me wondering, when do you use certain graver metals over another? If Carbide is the toughest, why not use it all the time? I was led to understand that Cobalt and Carbide are more easily fractured, yet they hold up longer against these tougher steels??? What gives? What criteria do you pros use for selecting your graver metal composition?


"Inquiring minds want to know,"


Mark

 

[monk]

carbide is hard, not tough. it is quite brittle. the carbide point can break. i'm guessing here, are your heels too long for the tight curves you're cutting? the heels must be very short for tight curves, maybe about the width of a human hair. heels too long, pressure on the point increases, and breakage will occur. also, when too long, the heel will drag causing a very unsightly roughening of the scroll wall. good luck

 

[monk]

another thing, if uncertain of the alloy, i would not engrave the stuff. life's too short. some of the ss alloys just should not be attempted. most of the friendly alloys are in the 400 series. avoid all others is my motto.
start a journal as you navigate the forum. note the guns and knife brands that are engraveable. grs sells ss folders that can be engraved, but i'm not sure how big they are.

 

[Doc Mark]

Monk,

No, I keep the heels very tiny, as you say "hairline", and I use the Lindsay relief geometry on the secondary heels. My Glensteel and Cobalt tips were breaking or immediately dulling even when I was only cutting straight border lines! It was very frustrating! Yet, the Carbide graver allowed me to continue the work even with tight scrolls. I just wondered if I should use the Carbide for everything, or are there situations that call for different gravers.

The cigar cutter I was engraving was sold by the same company that another Forum member recommended when he did his beautiful cigar cutter several months ago. They looked the same, but as you know all these items are coming out of China and the quality control it abysmal. The cutter is made up of several different stainless plates sandwiched together. Some of the plates engraved fine, when I moved onto the plates surrounding the "finger holes" is when the trouble started. The steel, of course, looked the same, but it sure didn't cut the same! I really wanted to finish the project but was about to give up when I found the Carbide. However, you are absolutely correct, in that some steels are not worth the frustration factor. Unfortunately, I didn't know what stainless this item was made from when I started.

Mark

 

[Sam]

Mark: First off, as monk said, life is too short to be engraving miserably hard steels. My advice is to avoid them. Unless I know exactly what kind of steel I'm cutting (or can make some test cuts somewhere), I won't do the work.

Carbide is my graver material of choice for precious metals. I have less success with it in steels because it's so brittle. Some engravers use it in steel successfully, but I prefer Glensteel and HSS gravers. Carbide takes on a fabulous polish for brightcutting in precious metals, and it retains that polish better than non-carbide tools.

 

[joe seeley]

Doc,
99% of the engraving I do is all with carbide gravers and I hav had great success with them.
Due to the brittle caracteristics of carbide I icrease my face angle to 60 deg. and set my heel angle at 20deg.. Make sure that you have a good polish on the face and heel or they will fracture at any scratch mark in the carbide. Using this method I often can engrave 1/2 of a gun without having to stop and sharpen my gravers.
I have used carbide gravers from GRS with good sucess I also use a lot of broken 1/8" carbide mill cutters that I get for free and they last very well, but are a pain to sharpen after the the first grind due to their round shank. But for free what more can a guy ask for.
hope this helps you
Joe

 

[monk]

carbide gravers

another thing slipped my feeble mind. it does no harm to use a bit of lube when working something that's creating problems. and not wanting to start ww3, at least on not so critical stuff- quality control ?
you gotta be jokin ! hss works for most of what i do. carbide is my next choice. when i get a proper sharpener, i'll be tryin the carbalt. john b's little mini tools are pretty good, cobalt drill bit shafts-though i've never really tried to cut thru a granite wall with them.

 

[msar24]

The GRS folders are a 410 SS and nice to cut. They are a small "gentlemen's size knife" but for about $25 people like them, they hold a good edge and fit in the pocket (they are made by buck). I've use both hss and John's cobalt gravers on them and they both work very well.

I had a request to engrave some names on some SS dog bowls that a lady used at dog shows. I tried a carbide graver and it skipped across it like a nice flat rock on a calm lake. Had to tell her I couldn't do it. She took them to the mall and they wouldn't do them either.