GRS's New Airtact

[jlseymour]

I used the new GRS Airtact at the Blade Show and would like to have some others opinion that have one or have used the Airtact...
I have most of all GRS equiptment that we as engravers and us (wontatoBEEE's) and have considered the Airtect...
Give us some Info...
JL Seymour
PS: I also have SL palm control...
Great for portability...

 

[LahtiM39]

I purchased the airtact unit with the palm control recently. I am impressed with the operation and there was not a learning curve involved in the transition from the foot control to the palm. I'm sold on the unit so far!

 

[Tim Wells]

If you do a search there are some other threads on this subject here someplace, it was months ago though.

 

[Richard Hambrook]

Lindsay palm control vs.airtact

Fellow engravers,
I have been trying to set up the new GRS airtact at Browning but have been unsuccessful do to being sent the wrong attachment for my hand piece. I also later found out that because I utilize a "GraverMax" and not a "GraverMach" that I needed yet another attachment. While setting up the airtact I found a couple of cons to this equipment. One, I am running out of bench space with all of the gadgets needed to run the airtact. Two, I don't like the idea of all of the hoses running everywhere. I kind of feel like I am in the intensive care room hooked up to all those machines. Also, I am not to excited about taking a razor blade to control to hand piece. Do I have switch rubber pieces every time I want change sensitivities? I still plan on trying out the airtact when the equipment issues get corrected and I will let you all know how it goes.
On a positive note, I have been using both the Lindsay Palm Control and Foot control. I was a GraverMax guy for 7 years and when I used both Lindsay's I instantaneously fell in love. No boxes, one hose, one little regulator, just awesome. Response time is unbelievable and guess what.........ADJUSTABLE!!!! I can change the stokes per minute with out even taking my eyes off my work. All of your controls are on the hand piece itself not on two boxes. What I really like is the ability to go up to 15,000, yes I said 15,000, strokes per minute. It does make a huge difference with exhibition grade work. Also, the Lindsay looks like a beautiful, hand made machine. She purrs like a kitten but has the heart of a lion! I could go on and on about all the things I love about both Lindsay engravers but I don't have a lot of time. If you haven't tried it ladies and gentlemen, it is a must. If you don't like it, I believe you have 45 days to return it.

Best Regards,
Rich Hambrook

 

[Marcus Hunt]

Hi Rich
I've been using Airtact for a few months now and love it. Granted, I don't like all the extra hose and box either but it's not really a problem if you have a 'studio' setup; you just have to find a place for it to fit. If I ever tidy my bench and studio I'll post a picture of my setup. In answer to your question, you don't have to keep changing rubber pieces to change sensativity but it pays to experiment with which configuration you like. At the moment I find grinding the side bumps and grip ridges to half depth best for me.

The Lindsay Palm Control is a fine tool and it is very minimalist in it's setup. Other postings of mine explain what I don't like about it so I won't go into it here. Suffice to say, Airtact enables 'traditional' cuts to be made, i.e. flicking out the bur, whereas Palm Control requires a scooping action at the end of the cut. This is because of the way it is constructed.

The main thing about Airtact is, for those who like their GRS equipment and don't want/can't afford to change systems, it's retro fittable. You do need an extra T piece though if you are fitting it to a GraverMax or the older(?) GraverMach. It's worth talking to the folks at GRS when ordering so they can advise you.

Having used both sets of kit I know where my preference lies. And that is the crux of the matter; it is all down to personal preference, each has it's advantages and disadvantages so my advice would be that if possible try both systems. And (at the risk of repeating myself) remember, the two systems are only a way of helping a graver pass through steel.....Palm Control or Airtact do not the Engraver make!

 

[Sam]

Hi Rich. Long time no see. Where have you been hiding? Sorry to hear that you didn't get the T-fitting needed to adapt Airtact to your GraverMax. Once it arrives, you'll be up and running. Marcus is right, you don't need to swap rubber touch elements all the time, but the system does allow you to fine tune them to your liking. Everyone's hands are different, and you can tweak the touch element to your individual needs. Sort of like adjusting the seat, mirrors, and steering wheel tilt in a car, and no further adjustment should be necessary, but you always have that option. Don't forget that you can also make your own elements, either palm or finger control, for example.

Yes, it has two more hoses and an additional box. As Marcus points out, Airtact can stop dead and allow breaking out the chip with a quick snap. This may or may not be important to your style of engraving. It is for mine, and I'm happy with the trade off.

Whether it's hammer & chisel, hand push, 'Mach or Palm, use whatever enables you to achieve your best work and makes you feel good in the process!

Cheers / ~Sam

 

[Richard Hambrook]

Airtact vs. Lindsay

Sam and Marcus,
It is a pleasure to hear from the both of you. I totally and completely admire, respect and study the both of your work. The two of you, along with many others, have inspired me in my journey as an engraver. I have learned an unbelieveable amount in the years past but have such a long and exciting road ahead.

Sam, to answer your question, I haven't gone anywhere. I have been here in the shadows all along. I have been just studying, observing, working and learning. But between engraving full time for Browning, running my own engraving business at home and coaching football.......yeah, what day is it!!!

I know exactly what the two you are talking about when you are refering to the "plucking". Sam, I am not sure what you are saying about "It may not apply to my kind of work". Are you doing a different style of engraving now other than the typical gold inlay, deep relief, lettering, etc. etc. That is the type of work I have been doing..... standrad gun engraving. I did experience that lack of being able to "pluck" but only for a short period of time then I guess I just subconciously learned how to control it.

Yes the palm control is a large purchase but when you are convinced that the tool is superior to what you have been using and it will improve your work....well than you must spend money in order to make money. With that in mind I made the decision to not only puchase the Palm control but I purchased the foot control as well. With both the Palm control and Foot Control model I get the abilities of a Magnum, 901 and a Monarch all in one hand piece. I can "hog it out" or make elegant "Alfano cuts" with a turn of a sleeve. Well I shouldn't say I can make cuts like you Sam, but the Lindsay sure can. Maybe some day I will come close Marcus and your talent....maybe! Its like Marcus said "Its a personal preference". I feel the Lindsay adds a whole new excitement to the playing field.

Once again I have to go...out of time. It was a pleasure and thank you both for inspiring me.

P.S. Sam, thankyou for everything you have done with the engraving education.

Respectfully yours,
God Bless
Rich

 

[Sam]

Hi Rich. Sounds like you're a busy guy. That's great...enjoy your kids while you can. Next thing you know they'll be driving and then you'll never see 'em again!

Whatever term is used to describe the rapid snapping off of chip at the end of the cut (pick, flick, pop, pluck), I find I do an awful lot of it during jewelry engraving where I'm doing decorative borders which are short, deep cuts that are broken out quickly. I'd say a majority of my jewelry engraving consists of this type of cutting. I don't don't do nearly as much when cutting scrollwork or shading, but during background removal I'm once again bustin' those chips out with a lot of force. To give you an idea of how much force I use, when I demonstrate certain decorative borders to my classes, I ask that they watch my right hand as I reach the end of the cut and break out. Most are suprised to see that my graver hand comes to within a few inches of my left shoulder.

I'm glad you're here in the Cafe, Rich. I know you're a busy and appreciate you taking the time to participate. We have a great family of engravers and you are most welcome to join in whenever you have the opportunity.

Cheers / ~Sam

 

[Don Cowles]

Steve Lindsay's comments on flicking the burr with the Palm Control can be seen here:http://www.engravingforum.com/showthread.php?t=887

 

[ED DELORGE]

Hello to All, I just received my Airtact. I haven't put it together yet, but I have a question. Aaron at GRS told me that the airtact is not to good at stippeling with the palm control. How do I resolve this situation?
I don't mind buying another 901 or monarch hand piece and using the foot control if I have to. But I am sure there is a solution. Any one have an Idea?

Ed DeLorge

 

[Sam]

Ed: Congratulations! I just added a second one to my studio for student use. You can position the knob for stippling when holding the handpiece upright, but I find the best way is to switch to the FootPod. In 5 seconds or less you can use the handpiece with traditional foot pedal operation, which includes stippling. Keep in mind that all you have to do is pinch the small air hose for Airtact to start tapping, so you'll probably think up other ways to operate it. / ~Sam

 

[Deland]

Palm Control Airgraver can't do what?

I'm confused did Steve Lindsay send me the palm control that can flick out chips and send other people the one that can't?
I make printing dies for graduation announcements and use gravers as wide as a #55 round and have not had any problem flicking the chips out. I have been a push graver for several years and just about a year ago switched to a palm control airgraver.

With printing dies you need crisp sidewalls on your engraved lines, if not, the ink will spit out of the die and show up on the paper. So if a chip doesn't chip out properly it will show up in the most unsightly manner. Most of the crest dies I make are a three die set where one ink is laid down right next to another so if the end of the lines don't end at the exact location, the next ink die will spit as it hits the ridge of ink from the previous die.

I'm no master engraver like Sam or any of the other people on this sight. Just an average engraver who loves how natural the palm control airgraver is in the palm of my hand. I've had no problems having the palm control airgraver do exactly what a push graver can do, well except for one thing, I don't slip out of my engraved line and scatch my die when the tip of the graver breaks like I used to when I pushed engraved.

I don't mean to offend anyone here this has just has been my experience with the palm control airgraver.
Deland

 

[Marcus Hunt]

Ok, there seems to be a little misunderstanding of 'flicking out chips or burs' and I really feel its a case of semantics. Of course the Palm Control can 'flick out chips' and it would be pretty useless if it couldn't but its the way you have to use the tool to do so that differs from the Airtact.

The traditional way of flicking out the bur from the end of the cut when hand pushing was to grind the tool to such dimensions that it flexed and would literally act like a spring and truly 'flick' the bur from the cut. This entailed putting a lot more pressure on the graver at the end of the cut and meant when the wrist was finally dropped to end the cut the graver would actually release with an audible click and the bur would fly several feet. Now I am talking from a gun engraving perspective and I have a friend who used to be a bank note engraver who told me they used to set their gravers totally differently because they didn't need the same cut in the printing business, so maybe this is what you are experiencing Deland?

With Airtact I can literally grind my gravers to almost the dimensions I used to use and can go in deep at the end of the cut. When I stop squeezing the handle I come off the pressure, Airtact stops, I drop my wrist and 'pop' the bur out.

When I tried this using Palm Control it was a physical impossibility to do the same type of cut. I emphasize this for a reason; I watched Steve Lindsay's video and he does indeed 'pop his chips' but in a different way. It looks as if he is lowering his wrist a lot earlier than a 'traditional' engraver would and hence he exits the cut at a lot shallower angle and I doubt very much his chips would travel 2 or 3 feet. Barry Lee Hands visited me recently and it was his Palm Control I tried out. When I pointed out the shape of his cuts in his published 'English small scroll' picture he had to agree with me that they were not and did not look the same as the traditional cuts. When I tried to cut small scroll with it (and remember there are only 3 basic cuts in whatever style of engraving you do with a square graver so it applies to larger scrolls too) I could not physically go deeper at the end of the cut. To do so meant the tool accelerated deeper into the steel with no real way of being able to exit because pressure on the handle meant power to the graver. But when I started to drop my hand earlier than normal out the chip would pop, no problem........except it wasn't the pure black teardrop I was after. It is akin to the differences between push engraving and hammer and chisel work. The hammer and chisel do not release in the same way as a push graver does and that is why if you look carefully at Continental executed fine rose and scroll it is totally different to the English, hand pushed, equivelant.

So there you have it. All I am doing is conveying my experience of both tools. Please don't anyone get touchy and feel you have to defend which tool you use. If something works for you and helps you produce the best work you are capable of, then use it! PC or Airtact, hand push or hammer and chisel it matters not

As a final footnote on Airtact, I don't know what the rest of you Airtact users are finding but I've found it's enabling me to work faster because I don't have to use the foot pedal. The fractions of a second saved on each cut, by missing out the foot activation, add up to many seconds in a day, which become minutes in a week and hours over a year!

 

[Glenn]

Thanks Marcus,
Your explanation helps me to understand the ticks made in the English scrolls. It will be fun to practice getting the dark tear drop.

 

[Lee]

I always have teardrops with small english..............unfortunately they are mine when it doesn't look like Marcus':

 

[FANCYGUN]

Lee
I think one of the trade secrets to this is the "Marcus Hunt patented Grind". It would be interesting to see a drawing of the tool grind that you use Marcus.
Lee and myself did have tons of fun playing with the airtact when we were all in Emporia and test driving/evaluating the pre-production ones. I'm looking forward to getting mine and canning the foot throttle.
Marty

 

[ED DELORGE]

More info on stippeling with the Airtact. I just talked with Aaron at GRS and he said the info on not being able to stipple with the airtact was old news and with the new palm control it is easily accomplished now. Or just put the controller box in the middle position and away you go. He said the new finger control is now available and if you have ordered one it should be at your location soon. Yes, I did order one.

Ed DeLorge

 

[Big-Un]

Yesterday I tried an Airtact with Russ Sutton's permission (it was his at his house!) and had no trouble at all. In fact, from the very first cut I was hooked. I flick my burrs out as standard practice and did so with my very first try with the Airtact. In fact, it seemed natural. Russ showed me how to stipple with it as well, and it is as Ed said. I was in a quandry as to which tool to get; the Palm Control ot the Airtact, wondering if I was going to have to sell all my GRS stuff and go with Lindsey or invest a little more extra with GRS and add to my collection. Seeing as how I will not be going high end professional, I decided the most prudent thing to do was stay with the GRS equipment. Sometimes a Chevy will do just fine when you really want a Caddy.

 

[Deland]

Thanks Marcus for doing such a good job of explaing that both systems are very capable of flicking out chips at the end of the cut.

Isn't the internet great you get different perspective on how different people do engraving for all the different kinds of engraving styles.

Although I don't think I would like to learn your's and Sam's type of engraving ... having steel chips flying into the air and lodging into my eyes or the people that stop in to watch me engrave (sound like a lawsuit waiting to happen). And having my hand with a sharpened steel graver flinging uncontrolably toward my shoulder...
I stabbed my fingers enough when I was learning to hand engrave with a push engraver... so now to have a power graver heading toward my chest or shoulder... boy, I don't think I have that much life insurance.

Thanks again for everyones input I always learn so much from these engraving forums.

Deland

 

[Marcus Hunt]

Well Deland, I must say I don't have a graver ending up around my ears (no need if you've ground the graver down to spring the bur out) but I've seen Chris DeCamillis in action and I wouldn't want to be standing on his left side!!!

I don't quite know how to take your comments Big Un:

Seeing as how I will not be going high end professional, I decided the most prudent thing to do was stay with the GRS equipment. Sometimes a Chevy will do just fine when you really want a Caddy.

Loads of high end professionals use GRS equipment. There is no way that you are penalising yourself by staying with what you have.

There seems to be some sort of falicy that what system you use makes you a better engraver (or one moves on from one system when one reaches a certain standard). I'll say it one last time......it won't ! If you can't engrave with a GRS system switching to a Lindsay will not be some sort of mystical cure. All these systems do is provide a method of assisting a graver to pass through a material be it steel, copper, gold, silver or ivory. All they do is replace the need for the body to learn through muscle memory and, in the case of hammer and chisel, rhythm. This enables the engraver to learn graver control from the start. THIS IS ALL THEY DO. Each system takes a slightly different approach as to how it achieves this and what will work for one person may not for another and vice versa.

You summed it up wonderfully Big Un when you said that picking up Airtact was so natural. This is exactly what I found when I first used it and it is a very short period before it becomes an extention of your fingers and you don't even think about what you are holding in your hand. If you go the Airtact route you are not getting second best; you are getting a superb tool and will not be disappointed.