help with background, antiquing, etc.

[thughes]

Hi ya'll, I thought I lived in the south, but it was -4 at my house this morning. Dangit. Anyway, I just finished this 5/8" sterling bracelet a guy wanted for his wife for christmas. I was out of town dealing with a clients spill for a few weeks, oh well. Which reminds me, for rookies like me, it's not a good idea to pick up your tools and go to shading first thing after not engraving anything for 3 or 4 weeks. I must be blonde because I had to be totally re-trained and I really butchered this shading job.

But my question is that I can never seem to get my background to be that nice even dark like others can. He wanted this antiqued so I used the liver of sulphur first. Then I lay it flat on a piece of that polishing paper that comes in the different colors for different grits and used the red one to take the antique off of the high parts. It gives it a nice lived in, kinda mellow look without taking out the fine shading. But my backgrounds always comes out looking like this. It actually looks a lot worse in this photo in this light. I used black paint after I bent it, but it still looks like it looks. Am I not relieving the background deep enough or just not getting it flat enough? I've wondered if maybe pushing up high spots when I stipple.

He specifically asked for the CM Russell skull, so that was my first try at anything besides scrolls and flowers. I clearly didn't make the details in the skull deep enough to stay dark either. Any critique is more than welcome.

 

[Andy]

Rustoleum...flat black

 

[Brian Marshall]

Try getting a deeper texture to your background, maybe use a faceted stippler? More ink or paint will stay put.


Brian

 

[thughes]

Hey andy, I did that. But after it's bent it seems like i still wipe the paint out of the background areas.

 

[sam]

1.) wide areas are always more difficult to blacken and STAY blackened because so much of the background area is exposed to wear.
2.) from what I can see in the photo, the background is not nearly as deep as it could (should?) be. As long as the background is near the surface you're always going to see high spots and light areas and it will be subject to wear.

If it's deep enough, then deep texturing with a needle point carbide stippling tool followed by Rust Oleum flat black paint should do the trick.

 

[scott99]

Hi, background aside I realy like the piece.

scott99

 

[thughes]

Thanks ya'll for looking. Seems that deeper is probably the answer then. To be honest I've never really known how much to take out, I've pretty much just gone as deep as my design was cut. I'll try going deeper. Thanks again.

Todd

 

[LVVP]

I love it, thanks for sharing

 

[John P. Anderson]

I really like the foreground. I've had the same trouble with the background. Unfortunately my method of dealing with it takes more time. I go in and give the background a specific texture. I've fine stippled some pieces and on a recent one I cut the entire background with a closely spaced parallel cut lines. The background has to be very smooth as imperfections still show through. Yours looks ready. The texture holds the patina better.

I think well done background seems to take as much or more time than what catches the viewers eye.

Excellent bracelet. Thanks for posting.

John

 

[thughes]

John, thanks and you are right about the time thing for sure. I keep telling myself to draw something with less background, but every time I draw something it comes out looking like the same old same old. I can't seem to be creative enough to get out of my drawing rut.

Todd

 

[Marrinan]

To be honest Todd I see nothing wrong with the background the way it is. The spots that wear to a lighter spot and age and character to the piece. Kind of and aged and worn look which you will get with silver anyway as it oxidizes. You have built in the character. Just my opinion but I like the overall picture your work created. Fred

 

[atexascowboy2011]

Todd

EXCELLENT SCROLL WORK!
I know in real life it will look different, but as it stands I LIKE your background as is.

:clapping: Jeff

 

[thughes]

Thank's y'all for looking and for your thoughts.

Todd

 

[bronc]

Nice work!

Stewart

 

[Southern Custom]

Nicely done. I like to see a more colorful naturally aged look on some pieces.
I've been there with the background problems. Large backgrounds are always hard to get dark and even. Deeper is better obviously. The smaller the background sections are compared to the scrolls, the less deep they need to be.
Sam mentioned the needle point for stippling. On Silver you can use a needle sharp point and make your stippling deep and densely packed. The result is that the surface is so porous that it soaks up paint like a sponge. Printers ink also works well for some. I've seen printers ink followed by beeswax rubbed in after drying.
One thing to consider is that if you can't get it right, why fight it. On a large section, maybe something like a punchdot background and only liver of sulfur to give it a true antiquing, instead of black, would look nicer.
I've learned my lesson and now try and keep my background equal to or substantially less than the scrollwork while maintaining balance. I'm cutting 3 stainless 1911s right now and while I don't have a ton of background, it takes twice as much time if not more, than the scrollwork and shading. Always something to factor in when estimating time. A design that can be cut in an hour could take 3 or 4 hours of background removal and stippling.
Layne

 

[KCSteve]

I've learned my lesson and now try and keep my background equal to or substantially less than the scrollwork while maintaining balance. I'm cutting 3 stainless 1911s right now and while I don't have a ton of background, it takes twice as much time if not more, than the scrollwork and shading. Always something to factor in when estimating time. A design that can be cut in an hour could take 3 or 4 hours of background removal and stippling.
Layne

And that's the beauty of English Fine Scroll and why I'm (slowly) working on learning it via Marcus's fine book & DVD. While it may look like you're doing more cutting it actually works out to be less because all you're really doing is cutting away the background in a very carefully designed way. I'm still in love with the simple beauty of it. Cut a nice dark scroll that defines the background next to your scroll's stem. Make a teardrop cut that defines the background on one side of a leaf / stem, then another teardrop that defines the other side of the leaf / stem and the front of the next one. Add a second teardrop along the back of the second one to change between leaf or stem. Repeat until the scrolls are done and then add the outside work (again, just a few cuts defining the background around the elements) to properly finish the edges and you're done.

 

[peteb]

There is much to admire about the engravings shown on this forum including the bracelet under discussion, but having to use various paints and dyes seems to me to diminish the quality of the products, be it jewelry, knife or gun. Are there better ways or do constraints of time (money) always preclude best quality?

 

[thughes]

Wow Peteb, I wasn't constrained from producing "best quality" by anything other than my own lack of ability, and I wasn't trying to cover up that lack with paint. But there are plenty of others who post here who use paint or chemical treatment, or what have you, and THEY do produce BEST QUALITY work. I believe it's more a personal choice about how the look they are after. I know it was in my case. And in my case, it doesn't hide poor execution, it accentuates it.

Todd

 

[peteb]

Todd, I said that I admired your work but I questioned, in general, the need to compromise on the amount of extra work to make a "perfect" background. If you had silver material that could be engraved without extra time and effort and could be blackened very effectively, quickly and easily, would you spend a little extra for such a thing?

 

[clevetromba]

Instead of liver of sulphur, try Midas Black Max from Rio Grande for a darker black patina.