How nessasary is pneumatic engraver for a beginner?

[terrapinstation]

Hey all! I am an apprentice jeweler who would like to learn the art of hand engraving to add to my skills as a jeweler. I will be engraving primairly silver and brass to start but eventually gold as well. My original plan is to begin hand push engraving, and eventually saving up for pneumatic engraver, but I was curious if it worth beginning to learn without? or is it nessasary// reccomended to learn with the pnuemic engraver for best results?

Thanks all!

 

[monk]

the power toys just save time. most any jewelry work i've done was small enough that power assist simply was not needed. matter of fact, on small work i woud simply turn off the power while using the handpiece.
i'd tell any newbie that learning to do push work without power would be better. without power one gets the "feel" of what is being done. as buisness picks up, powerr toys could save you time.

 

[mdengraver]

Right on Monk, especially for the softer metals, and jewelry engraving!

 

[Travis Fry]

I would agree with both of the above, but I think the power toys do more than just save time. Hand push and powered engraving are, to me, very different things. The principles and essentials are the same, but having to exert force (hand push) while also maintaining control is a much more complex skill than maintaining that same control without having to exert force. In other words, the "toys" make control of the outcome A LOT easier. And for anything but the smallest projects, they make the whole operation faster (or can, anyway).

That said, Monk is certainly correct. For soft metals power assist is not strictly necessary, and sometimes not even helpful. If you just want to dabble, by all means start with hand push. Even if you eventually upgrade (and that IS the right word) to power assist, your hand push experience will not be wasted. If you want engraving to be a serious part of your business, with the capability to go beyond jewelry, power assist will be a part of your future.

If money were no object, I would 100%, definitely, totally and unequivocally suggest starting with a full GRS or Lindsey system and a microscope, much the same as if you wanted to row it would be ideal to start with a nice boat. But it's rarely the case that money doesn't matter so do what you must, as long as you get started. Even a rowing machine is much better than sitting on the couch.

 

[mtlctr]

push & hand sharpening is the foundation Imo. You will have to commit manyyyy hours learning to cut & draw. For what you want to do a optivisor will work fine. The % of folks that actually have a career hand engraving is pretty small. You’ll finally decide if $1000’s in extra equipment is warranted.
kent

 

[rweigel]

I learned engraving without a direct teacher, only with help from the engravers cafe. It would have been impossible / quite a lot harder and slower without air assist. Those systems, properly set up, make the start a lot easier. The same goes for a precise sharpening system. As a beginner, you probably could not cope with too many variables. So a sharp graver with consistent angles and heel width is a big help. The air assist requires almost no force to move the graver trough the metal, so a beginner could concentrate on controlling the angle of attack, leaning the graver and moving the workpiece to achieve the desired curves and lines. I use air assist also for sterling silver, and leave it aside only for shading and crosshatching.

Before I started engraving, I used hand-sharpened hand push engravers for stone setting (no channel setting, of course). That did work well, biut it did not help me to learn line engraving. The stone setting cuts are way to short…

Cheers

Ralf

 

[monk]

push woek shouldn't require a lot of "strain or muscle" if your engraving is done at a normal depth-- just a few "thou" deep. pushing deeply, yes, problems will arise. on deep work, a slip can dang near amputate yer left thumb. i didn't read this in a book, i discovered this concept the hard way.

 

[Adder]

push woek shouldn't require a lot of "strain or muscle" if your engraving is done at a normal depth-- just a few "thou" deep. pushing deeply, yes, problems will arise. on deep work, a slip can dang near amputate yer left thumb. i didn't read this in a book, i discovered this concept the hard way.

Ditto!

 

[mdengraver]

Until you get comfortable with pneumatic engraving, push engraving may be a safer way to because it teaches you how to slowly control your graver for precision cuts. Push engraving teaches you the feel of the capabilities of your tools and whether they are sharpened and working properly. You want to develop that synergism of the graver as a more precise extension of your hand, arm, and relaxed body connection. That feeling of making the graver do what you want it to do, in my opinion, is less complicated than coordinating the pneumatics, and all the settings of the machines. When you are a beginner the addition of all these extra variables, including the microscope just complicates thee situation unnecessarily. More importantly, push engraving is more portable when traveling and is not dependent on the proper workings of the mechanized equipment. It's best not to be too dependent on the pneumatics when all goes wrong you can always fall back on push engraving as a more reliable backup.

 

[mtlctr]

Don’t forget there is the Pulse graver now, no compressor needed albiet still expensive & a learning curve.

 

[Decorator]

Just to add to all the previous comments; I was taught hand/push engraving at college, and also did an apprenticeship at a manufacturing jewellers. My view for what it’s worth; invest in 4 - 5 gravers of different shapes/widths - square/lozenge, flat, round, get a decent sharpening system - GRS/Lindsey (each have their fans) and spend some time getting used to sharpening and polishing your gravers consistently - you can do simply with oil and Arkansas stones by hand, but you need a lot of practice and patience to get consistent, an Optivisor, a couple of sand bags and a hand vice, good quality dividers - Moore & Wright are good in the UK, a ruler and a scriber. Some engraving copper sheet to practice on (T N Lawrence are good), and then some brass as you get more practiced & confident. Copper cuts a lot like silver and 18ct (really nice), brass cuts a lot like 9ct (can drag a bit and rag around curves).
All a personal view, feel free to use/ignore.

 

[monk]

as above: the tool of choice matters little. what does matter is determination to prevail with practice using whatever is on hand. learning control with practice is what leads to success. all the while, it's nearly mandatory to learn drawing/ design skills. a competent execution in metal is for naught if the drawing was lousy. sadly, it took me a long time to reaize this.

 

[mdengraver]

Rules of thumb: If you can't draw them, you can't cut them! A good drawing poorly cut is more likely to look better than a bad drawing cut well!

 

[JJ Roberts]

If you want to be a successfully engraver you need to learn how to draw. J.J.

 

[Crossbolt]

I'll add my input as a hobby "beginner " largely self educated via various online or DVD resources. I've used push, hammer and chisel and pneumatic . I found the Lindsay sharpening templates very helpful for consistency but am branching out from them now. Using them will eliminate a major learning variable but don't get hooked on them. I found pneumatic was useful for a sense of cutting patterns and developing ideas more quickly but at the expense of developing a manual sense for cutting. I'm moving toward more push cutting now. Hammer and chisel is my least used but what I was taught in the first class I had. Overall I think largely using pneumatic has been a benefit in starting quickly but I need push skill development. I can see how longer time (if you have it) taken learning push first would be a better skill builder. In the long run it will converge I hope.

 

[JJ Roberts]

I started drawing as a young boy with Jon Gnagy TV artist Jon made easy to learn how to draw. J.J.

 

[sam]

Pneumatic is not "necessary".

With pneumatic you're paying for 1.) a GREATLY reduced learning curve, and 2.) CONTROL that you may never experience with hand push.

I send my students home on Friday engraving beautiful designs on steel plates. If I were teaching hand push, we would still be on straight lines and curves.

Many of us learned by traditional methods and there's absolutely nothing wrong with that. It boils down to how quickly you want to get up to speed.

 

[Marcus Hunt]

I 100% concur with Sam. It’s definitely not necessary and if you learned the “old ways” you’re not dependent on things like compressors, etc. Engraving is thousands of years old and it’s only really in the past 20-30 year’s pneumatic engraving has become a thing. If you choose the old manual techniques though, be prepared for a much steeper learning curve.

 

[terrapinstation]

the power toys just save time. most any jewelry work i've done was small enough that power assist simply was not needed. matter of fact, on small work i woud simply turn off the power while using the handpiece.
i'd tell any newbie that learning to do push work without power would be better. without power one gets the "feel" of what is being done. as buisness picks up, powerr toys could save you time.

thanks so much for the response! much appreciated

 

[terrapinstation]

I would agree with both of the above, but I think the power toys do more than just save time. Hand push and powered engraving are, to me, very different things. The principles and essentials are the same, but having to exert force (hand push) while also maintaining control is a much more complex skill than maintaining that same control without having to exert force. In other words, the "toys" make control of the outcome A LOT easier. And for anything but the smallest projects, they make the whole operation faster (or can, anyway).

That said, Monk is certainly correct. For soft metals power assist is not strictly necessary, and sometimes not even helpful. If you just want to dabble, by all means start with hand push. Even if you eventually upgrade (and that IS the right word) to power assist, your hand push experience will not be wasted. If you want engraving to be a serious part of your business, with the capability to go beyond jewelry, power assist will be a part of your future.

If money were no object, I would 100%, definitely, totally and unequivocally suggest starting with a full GRS or Lindsey system and a microscope, much the same as if you wanted to row it would be ideal to start with a nice boat. But it's rarely the case that money doesn't matter so do what you must, as long as you get started. Even a rowing machine is much better than sitting on the couch.

Frankly I don’t have much interest in engraving much besides jewelery, but I do want to incorporate a significant amount of engraving into my work. luckily my work as a jeweler provides me with a power hone and a damn nice microscope! so for the meantime I can do most of my engraving practice after hours at work with the scope, or bring it home and use my trusty optivisor. thanks for the response and sorry it took so long!!