How Robert Kiyosaki scrabbled my eggs!

[griff silver]

I'm 32 years old a I come from humble origins, i learned to build bits and spurs between rodoes and could sell enough to live etc... From my background a selfemployed job that payed decent was wonderfull. As I get older I am aware of the need to put away for retirement and such. I have turned to books on finacial savy to look for answers. I have probably read 15 or so books just in the last year about finances and money management. Passive income vs porfolio income and earned income. Without prying is there any finacial advice an engraver can give to a guy looking to persue a life long career as an engraving artist and still reach finacial freedom at a resonable age? (Robert Kiyosaki is the author of some best selling finacial books like "rich dad Poor dad")

 

[monk]

financial freedom and engraving career in the same paragraph.! that's a concept ! i'm probably typical of the "average" engraver. been at it for 30+ years. i've never totally supported my family with the engraving income. i have always had a 9 to five, as they say. i have earned some fancy money with engraving, but never had the courage to be just a career engraver. a lot of that has to do with ones' ability to self promote, or market yourself. this concept was one always on the backburner for me. you have many things to consider regarding this career choice. the 2 critical elements i think are skill development and developing a market for whatever it is you enjoy engraving. one must consider travel may be a requisite evil in this choice.regardless, whatever you do, lots of people must be made aware of what you do. and we hope in the process, enough of these people will purchase your product to support you in such fashion as you might want . also in my case i always gave much consideration to the thoughts of my wife concerning such matters. she kind of kept me on a short leash when i was young and stupid. back when i was dumb enough to act on impulse with little regard for outcomes . anyway, good luck and may god be with you !

 

[griff silver]

Thanks for the comment monk, I dont think anyones gonna touch this topic. I am sure what i sell is bits and spurs not engraving. but i wish someone would tell me that if i get good enough i could drive a BMW and fly to forein countries. HE HE HE. LOL

 

[Andrew Biggs]

Hi Griff

Rob a bank, marry into a rich family or embezzle pension funds!!!!!!! Seems to work for some people

Most right thinking parents tell their kids to "stop spending all their money and put some away for a rainy day and retirement". Trouble is not many of us kids listened too well to that little bit of advise. That fell into the same basket as "get a haircut" and "turn the music down or you'll go deaf".

When you're 16-17 retirement is a lifetime away and only for old people who are fit for the knackers yard anyway. Then comes the partner, kids, mortgage, bills and all the rest of it. The years slip by and all of a sudden you've moved next door to the knackers yard yourself. Trouble is you still think and feel like a 16 year old.

The trick is to start early and do it in small increments. Oh....and tell your kids "to stop spending money and put some away for a rainy day and retirement". Naturally they'll listen to you

Cheers
Andrew

P.S. If you get good enough you can drive a BMW and fly to foreign countries. It just depends on how you prioritise your money.

 

[pilkguns]

I don't think that anyones afraid of this topic, its just one that get hashed around alot and maybe people are tired saying the same old thing. Do some searching. I know that it has been discussed recently on the Knife forum and Lindsay forum in the last two months. Its been discussed to a lesser degree on this forum.

But can you make money at this? yes. Can you make a comfortable living ? yes, if you are willing to work hard, promote yourself, travel yourself. Thats assuming you don't live in a high rent district. Are you ever gonna be Donald Trump from engraving... Don't think so.

 

[pilkguns]

persue a life long career as an engraving artist and still reach finacial freedom at a resonable age?

actually I missed this, and I think you have two mutually incompatible goals. A life long career versus trying to retire early? Engraving is a career that you can carryon well past mandatory retirement age, and can give a comfortable living.. But I don't believe that you are going to be able to retire early from engraving and live what most people regard as comfortable. Not unless you get a really good customer who sets you up, or make an unusually good investment with funds from the engraving. I note that you are 32... Honestly that was roughly the same age I went on the downhill spiral of FROM being a fulltime engraver and over into mostly a fulltime airgun seller doing some engraving on the side as I feel like it and have time. The last few years I was engraving fulltime I was making 50-60K a year. not bad, but it was a lot of work, and a lot of promotion that had gone on in previous years (and TBH I was damn good at promotion and had been engraving fulltime since I was 20), and honeslty about 10-12K of that income was courtesy of National Guard duty mostly at shooting matches.

PS: for the record I am 43 now, and the airgun business does have its ups and downs financially, My wife likes to remind that we had the engraving business figured out and most all of the engraving money was pure profit, but the airgun biz is interesting too and it does allow to travel the world a few times a year.... leaving for Belgium in the morning in fact, so I need to get off this d@*^ computer

 

[sam]

Don Glaser used to say "I've known a lot of millioniares who became engravers but no engravers who became millionaires."

 

[banjo_art]

Don Glaser is "SO RIGHT", engraving for a living is not a sure path to wealth if accumulating wealth is your goal. Most of us have to make the choice early in our career of doing something we really would like to do, like being a musician, artist, engraver or chosing a career with the potential to generate a reasonable income to support a family in today's world. That's probably at least $100K minimum today for a family of 4 with 2 cars living in a good suburb. I can tell you that never having enough money to make ends meet year after year is a bummer.

My advice is find a profession you like which is valued in today's society, go to school days, nights, weekends to learn all you can about it and become the best expert you can in that field. In a few years after your established and making more than 100K per year, you will begin to have enough free time to be a musician, engraver or whatever else your heart really wants to do.

I think that is just what Don Glaser did. He became a business man to build income and support his family. He was fortunate that his interest in engraving was the basis for his buisness but he was a manager and owner of a buisness, not a full time engraver. I went to dinner with Don several years ago and discussed this and other subjects. He was a real gentleman with good advice.

--Art

 

[sam]

Art: Of course it depends on how one defines 'wealth'. If it means big bucks, then more than likely a career in the arts will not get you anything more than a decent living. I consider myself extremely wealthy in a different way. I don't go to work each day doing a job I despise for a boss I dislike. I'm not eaten alive by ulcers and worry, and I have quality time to spend with the girl of my dreams. I love my art and teaching and actually get paid to do them. What a deal! I don't take this for granted and am grateful for how this has turned out.

Money is something we all need to survive, but it dang sure ain't everything.

~Sam

 

[blrigsby]

I haven't really introduced myself here, so...

I am a 44 year old software developer, right now for a lighting company. I used to love programming, but after 20 years the "magic" is all but gone. I wanted to be a programmer, but didn't have the sense to understand that the type of company was important. So after learning about the inner workings of selling life insurance, keeping track of 7 million lighting fixtures, and processing untold numbers of hospital records, I'm still looking for something fun. I should have applied to NASA or something exciting!

And I won't start about the outsourcing, layoffs, bad bosses, corporate bullstuff, etc.

I just got divorced, not my idea or desire, and have two kids, my son Josh(15) and daughter Morgan(13). And for the first time in 20+ years I wake up by myself.

I want to do something different and creative. For the next 5 years, I have to provide a huge chunk of my take home pay to support the new "family" that used to be mine (I still hope the kids might come live with me). But after that, I don't answer to anybody and my lifestyle can be what I want.

I plan to use my new-found free time to make progress in my engraving. I have an AirGraver, GRS Power Hone, and assorted gear.

My goal is to not embarrass myself in front of good craftsmen (or craftswomen!), to make things that are pleasing to look at, and to make some extra money. I would love to do only the engraving eventually, preferably on firearms.

I know it might not pay as well, at least for a while, but it makes me feel good. And that's a lot more than I can say for my current job!

Bryan

 

[Ron Smith]

Another nail banger, Sam. I live at the poverty level by today's standards, but I don't require much to be happy, but to try and keep up with the economic demands of a run-a-way lack of restraint, we left a whole generation in the dust. They have it hard trying to do on a lifetime of a fourth of the wages that people make now. They might have even tried to save their money for their old age, but inflation is eating it up. I am amazed because I know that these people are struggling desperately. They cannot compete in the current economic system. That is also why engravers have a hard time. Hand wrought items went out with the eighteenth century. we are trying to keep them alive in a twentieth century mass production environment. Pretty hard to do. You are right, it depends on what one considers to be wealth. I am with you on that one. We are wealthy, blessed men, are we not?.....educate, educate, educate! .....and that is my two cents on the subject........Ron S

 

[Steve223]

I have been a horse back cowboy for most of my life its just been the last 4 years that i have had a "real job" as i have been told, And i guess i have been liven in the past my whole life, and just scrapin by doin it. Mabey thats why i am attracted to engraving. As long as i have enough money to feed myself, The horses and the hounds i guess everthing else is gravey after that. lol
Steve

 

[Ron Smith]

Welcome aboard Bryan, sounds like you will fit right in. As far as feeling good, there is nothing much more gratifying than making something beautiful out of nothing with your own two bare hands. There are multitudes that would like to do what we do. They just don't have the discipline for it. On the other hand, it takes a lot of sacrifice and if you can do that, you got it by the tail. Good Luck! Ron s

 

[AllanFink1960]

Ron thanks for responding on this thread. From the comments in your book, I know you have put a lot of thought into this subject.

The world of engraving is one place where there IS a valid answer to "if I am so smart, why aint I rich?"

 

[RT Bit and Spur]

Griff

To give you the short story. I paid myself first. 10% of gross sales went in to a savings account.
When the oppertunity came to buy a house I had the down payment. Kept saving and bought
another house. Sold first house. Bought 4 more houses. If you bank the rents and your 10%
you will get down payments fast. This works until your wife finds how much money is in the
account then the fight is on. There are companys that will manage your rentals for you. that
way you can keep on with your job with out destractions. you keep on playing the game until
the rents are the amount to drive your Lexas and lay on the beach and colect checks.


griff

 

[griff silver]

u2 huh?

My estimation on how to do it has been exactly that. I hope to be there by 45. In the process I hope to learn how to do what some of these guys do so I can engrave in a grass hut looking out at the sea. LOL
Hope your doing well, Jodie says hi . She's going to bring you some ice cream to Wichita falls.which flavor do you prefer?. Best wishes. Griff

 

[Ron Smith]

Really Allen, not just a lot of thought. I have put my whole life into it. It cost me quite a lot to maintain my principals, and I often gave up money in the interum, but that is okay. Wouldn't change it for the world. Don't regret a minute of it, and I have had a wonderful go at life. If you can look back when you get old and say that, I think you must have done it pretty close to right..........Ron S

 

[Brian Hochstrat]

What it really comes down to is being diversified, which most of the replys have regarded to, it is a fact of being self employed, and, here are a few reasons why I have taken this approach. First, is that markets fluctuate, so when one slows your other enterprises can carry the load, lets face it we all have finacial commitments and no body wants to get a real job. Secondly, in any art based trade you have to ward off burn out. Personally I cannot stare into my microscope 10hrs a day, everyday, if you do, you won't for long. So when your interest is not there try to do something else, and schedule dead lines that allow this. One thing that has helped me is getting out of the "high rent district" since getting out of Ca. and relocating to Idaho, I don't need to bring in as much money as before, the funny thing is, is that I make close to the same. Unfortunatly not everyone has the freedom to do that. For retirement, no such luck, I am going to have to die at my bench. Brian

 

[Ron Smith]

You got it Brian! Diversity is essential for an occupational engraver. Some can specialize and some do, but that is an exception to the rule. With the increasing cometition it will be necessary more and more to do things in order to get a volume. Short quick jobs are the answer to that, but you have to get a lot of that kind of work. Lettering and monogramming is the answer here and you can build it into high demand with good work. It sells merchandise. not only that, but if you acquire an inventory of nice products to put your work on, you will make money off of the sales too. If I made any mistakes along the way, that would be one of them. I didn't stock things i could engrave on. You can do it on a wholesale basis, or if you are in a high traffic area or renting space from a jewelry store, etc. You can find a way to succeed and the diversity adds excitement to your work...........and that is my two cents on the subject...........Ron S. Sorry i misspelled your name Allan

 

[RT Bit and Spur]

Griff

The short virsion. I paied myself first. 10%. When the oppertunity arived I had enough money for a
down payment. Putting in the bank the profits from the rents plus the 10%, I had enough money for
another house. I have others manage them for me so I can keep making my products. By selling
and buying more houses. When you get the money coming in every month to let you drive your
Lexas and lay on the beach, go ahead.
Rod