Krieghoff shotgun locking block / Beginners Beware

[sdcoxx]

Hello Cafe Members,
It has been awhile.....
I have made a Beginner mistake, engraving on an item which I knew nothing about and beyond my skill level...
I soon discovered what HARD steel is when cutting this Krieghoff shotgun locking block.
Undercutting it for an inlay was impossible. If not for the help of a friend, I would not have been able to even scratch the surface......
I seem to learn some things the hard way.....
Beginners BEWARE!

Take Care,
Stephen

 

[Marcus Hunt]

Stephen, you are extremely lucky to have got away with this, well done! If you're not sure about whether or not to commit yourself to a job, always do a test cut somewhere it won't notice. On this piece I'd have tested it on the inside. Sometimes a job just isn't worth the agro and the time you'll waste means you'll end up losing money on it.

The only thing that is worse than this is when you start cutting quite happily and suddenly hit a hard spot which nothing will cut. Sometimes it's possible to anneal it but at others you just have to try and think of a way around the problem. The worse case scenario is handing it back to the client part finished. Luckily this has only happened to me a few times in the 30 years I've been engraving.

I hope you learned a lesson with this one. It turned out very nicely though!

 

[BrianPowley]

Stephen,
What you've run into, is heat treated steel.
Years ago, I had to engrave(full coverage) and inlay several dozen of those top latch covers.
I couldn't engrave them until I annealed them.
They will engrave nicely after annealing.

Marcus is "right on" about testing any new material in an inconspicuous spot. You'll get into the habit as time goes on.

You can anneal them yourself in your oven using the self-cleaning cycle. Takes about 8 hours to get 'em dead soft.
BTW: They will fire scale(unless you pack them), and they will have to be re-tempered before putting them into service.
Here's the caveat emptor: Those parts were tempered by the factory. Once they have been modified, the factory's product liability stops and yours begins. Make sure the re-tempered parts have been certified.

 

[John B.]

Well done Stephen.
Nice lettering and a great broken clay.
Way to go, fine job. You're on your way.

Best, John B.

 

[Powderhorn]

Sounds as though Stevens gun should be placed on the list of engraveable/not engraveable.

 

[sdcoxx]

Marcus, you are right on with the "test cut". Thanks you.
This is worst case senario, the project was to be gold inlaid.

Brian, I'll keep the certification of retempered part "tip", for future reference. Thank you.
Due to the liability issues, annealing was not even considered.

John B., It was the 65 degree face on the carbide graver that you recommended, which made cutting this possible at all. Thank you, for your continued support and guidance.

Powderhorn, for the experienced Professional Engraver, such as the men listed above, this item is ENGRAVABLE. For beginners, like myself, WITHOUT the advise and guidance of a Professional Engraver, it is a BEGINNERS BEWARE project. IMO

Thank you, for your input.
Respectfully,
Stephen

 

[Christopher Malouf]

Stephen,


You can engrave for years and never learn as much as with an experience like this.

When I first started engraving, an old friend told me: "The difference between a good engraver and a better one is how well you can hide your mistakes."


I think you're doin' pretty darn well.

Chris

btw ... I'd also like to add to Brian and Marcus' suggestion about test cuts. Try to cut a curve if you have the space. On hardened stainless, pick a spot to test that has less or a thinner amount of material as hardened stainless tends to be even harder in these areas. Has something to do with the way heat dissipates during the hardening process.

 

[kguns]

Engravers beware!!!

I have been engraving Kreighoff's for years and if you anneal the top latch, or locking latch as referred to you are now liable for the function and safety of that shotgun!!!

That top latch is the only thing that holds the barrels closed on that design, if annealed the top latch can wear prematurely and cause the barrels to loosen, which may lead to several problems, none of which are good.

To exasperate the situation Kreighoffs are competition guns. What that means is they get shot a lot, they are not wall hangers and should not be considered as such.

Kreighoff will not sell parts in the white so don’t bother to ask, I’ve been trying for years, with no luck and we are friends.

So if annealed, you might want to think about re-hardening and re-fitting after engraving.

If your going to do stuff like this especially on competition guns you might also consider a release of liability form from your client. It probably won’t be worth the paper it’s written on, but you might sleep better.

Kurt Horvath

 

[monk]

everybody beware ! i once etched ( on site ), a 6' x 8' plate glass window in a busy local restaurant. i came to find out it's possible i'm liable if someone breaks the glass and gets hurt. i'm told i should have done the etching and blasting off site, then i'm not liable. not sure about this, but i'll never do another on site again- just to make sure. for sure, there's no shortage of legals out there lookin for work !

 

[Roger Bleile]

Kurt,

What is your solution? Do you cut 'em as they are or anneal and reharden?

Thanks,

Roger

 

[Marcus Hunt]

I've just had in four Berettas for gold numbering. This is not a very satisfactory job as I hate having to gold inlay into already engraved parts; the numbers never look 100% to my eyes. Anyway, the top levers were as hard as hell and I had to anneal them, one took 5 attempts to get it soft enough!

The gunsmith was happy for me to go ahead and do this but we got to talking about new steels. His son is an engineer and, apparently, there are new types of steel that self harden as it's machined and he wondered if this is what Beretta and the like are now using? If so, I wonder if parts can be rehardened, if necessary, with this type of steel? Top levers and forend catches don't need to be hard but some bits do.

 

[PS_Bond]

...there are new types of steel that self harden as it's machined...

H1 is one such steel - Spyderco use it on their salt-water knives (no, not knives for cutting salt water) - the stuff is one of the precipitation-hardening steels, and work hardens quickly (even sharpening). PH steels aren't heat-treated at the levels normally used; if they're HTd at all it's at much lower temperatures.

 

[kguns]

Roger,

I'll never tell!

At least not here.

The lawyers are watching and waiting.

Just because I'm parinoid doesn't mean their not out to get us!

Seriously, I just cut them hard. It's not the best solution.

No job is worth the risk of annealing the top latch on a Kreighoff.

Just my opinion, My lawer would probably not be happy that we are even discussing this proceedure.

Kurt

 

[sdcoxx]

An Update....
I understand is it rare to see completed work....
The locking block was blued. It was masked and the broken clay & initials were bead blasted for contrast.
Barricade was used for rust protection.
Take Care,
Stephen

 

[Roger Bleile]

Stephen,

Fine work. What is Barricade?

Roger

 

[sdcoxx]

Rodger,
Barricade is a Birchwood Casey product for Rust Protection for Firearms.
Checkout, www.birchwoodcasey.com, for more information....
Take Care,
Stephen