pilkguns
~ Elite 1000 Member ~
got this message this morning, thought I would reply publicly
Scott, do you know anyone that teachs hammer & chisel specifically? All the courses I see are centered on power assist.
seems like the hammer is a dying art at least in the USA.
I learned with hammer and chisel, and used it for roughly 10 years before switching to the Gravermax, quite by accident, as it turned out but thats another story..that and a certain Mr. Alfano was involved. Well, maybe I should explain a bit more. The Gravermax was bought soley for my wife to stipple background with, and the Gravermax would pay for itself solely on that basis, since she was doing stipple with hammer and chisel stipple and Sam had assured me that what took 8 hours to stipple with hammer and chisel, could be done in 2 hours with a GMax.... he had just gotten one and was amazed, and was telling me to get one , anyway that's the condensed version. This was back in '91 BTW.
Anyway, prior to this I had taught both week long and weekend seminars using hammer and chisel, and push gravers. Quite frankly I was wearing a little bit of a chip on my shoulder, since I was using "traditional tools" my work was better somehow since I was'nt using those "newfangled" power things. Since I used the foot turn vise system, pretty uncommon in those days, I believed that the only advantage Graver-max-miester, or N-graver gave you was the lack of having to stop mid scroll to move the vise or your body. With the foot turned vise I thought I could cut just as fast as the power guys, and use traditional tools, so as I say, I was a bit proud that my work was intrinsically better somehow because I was'nt cheating using the new stuff. All this to say that learning, using, marketing my work, and even teaching, I was a hard core hammer and chisel fan.
OK, I was trying to stay out of the longer story but I guess bit more of how I got converted to the Gravermax is necessary. 1991, I was seriously doing high end knives, the Knifemaker’s Guild show was THE SHOW, very few other shows even existed at that time. Engraving wise, I had two complete work setups, my wife doing background removal and stippling and me doing all the design, layout, scroll, and inlay work. Time being money, cutting 6 hours off the stippling time alone was a worth while for my wifes time, so I took Sam’s advice and ordered the GraverMax at the Knifemaker’s Guild show from then long-time GRS employee Jeff Hogan. He had of course been after me for sometime to convert, and really thought it a coup that such a confirmed hammer and chisel guy was buying a Gravermax. But I as I say , in my mind, it was bought for one task for my wife to use. It was not for me to use for REAL engraving.
Engraving was mostly feast or famine, doing the big jobs, and multiple big or middle size jobs leading up to the Guild show was always famine, waiting for the feast of delivery at the Guild show. I normally came back from Orlando with 15 or 20 thousand dollars cash, both from engraving commissions and spec knives that I had bought and engraved and sold on my own. So what happened next really came at a good time, if such can come at a good time. Trying to be a good Samaritan late at night, I got run over on the Interstate , an idiot ran three feet into the emergency lane to hit me, knocked me about 20 feet, and I literally nearly bleed to death before getting to the hospital. Condensed version, but one of my legs was fractured, and the calf muscle was ripped in two, where his bumper had clipped me at 70 mph. I also broke his windshield and tore off his passenger side mirror (Thank You Ralph Nader) and was a scab from head to toe. This happened two weeks after the Guild show, so as I say, I was sitting on a significant portion of my year’s income, so that part was good. Tommy Clark, of Blue Ridge knifes, whom I had bought 5 or 6 thousand dollars worth of knifes from at the show, sent me my money back when he heard, and told me to pay him back when ever I got back on my feet. Sam Alfano, bless his heart too, had offered to finish up any knifes I needed done to get paid for, but really I had’nt done much since I got back…(enjoying that feast don’t ya know!) Okay, enough of the gore, the point of all this was to get back on my feet, I had to get my feet back, since the only way I knew how to engrave was using my feet, barefooted as it were, to turn this disc at the bottom of the vise. I could’nt do that with a broken leg that was swollen up like a big fat sausage and was going to be out of commission for 3 or4 months at least. My wife and I both are doing this engraving as I said, so its pretty much our sole source of income….What to do?…….. Of course , my package from GRS had showed the week I was in the hospital, and after I was home and feeling capable of sitting up, I tore into those boxes from Kansas, and I figured out pretty quick , Hey, I can turn this work with my hand now, I don’t really need my feet… So I learned how to use the Gravermax and never looked back….. well mostly.
Now finally to answer the question, originally presented, I am sure that there are some hammer only classes here and there. FEGA publishes every year a comprehensive list of classes and schools around the US and world and I quite sure I have seen some, but don’t know any specifically.. But, since 1995 I have been teaching for GRS, and there is nothing taught that is not applicable to hammer and chisel. I really don’t think that would be any different from anyone’s class. I have had students who brought their hammer and chisels, and used them in the class some… There is nothing explicity different from the two techniques in terms of mechanics. Only the power source. I initially teach graver angles from standard one size fits all viewpoint, and at the end of the week we discuss the need to personalize heel angles, and face angles based on the factors like magnification used, styles done, and bench heights that will determine what angles are best for your needs. Exactly the same is needed to be done for hammer and chisel, so I would FIRST OF ALL I WOULD SAY THAT YOU WILL LOSE ABSOLUTELY NOTHING by taking a power class from GRS, or Ray Cover, or Johnny Wyatt or whomever… Hey GRS even sells custom made hammers now ironically enough.
However, the second thing I would say is, and I have said it before, I see people doing work on Friday afternoon of a 5 day class with power assist tools, that it took me 2 years to get to with hammer and chisel, working/practicing pretty much full time. Seen it happen too many times…. I personally think you are crazy to try to learn with hammer and chisel if you want to do good work. There are too many distractions and cares of life, to learn the hard way. Hobbies are relegated to small amounts of time and with hammer and chisel, 99% of the people reading this board, don’t have that time available to get good with a hammer and chisel. If you want to get to a reasonable level of work in a reasonable amount of time on a part time basis, remember I was practicing for 2 years basicially full time, the ONLY WAY TO MAKE THAT HAPPEN is with power assist…. That’s my firm opinion, take it for what it’s worth.
I can, and everyone once in a while to prove it to myself, will cut a little something with a hammer, and TBH, it has been a bit of door opening when in various engraver’s shops, or engraving schools in Europe, when I get an upturned nose at me when I say I use a power tool, that I can grab up a hammer and stand up (or sit down) at their bench and cut away with their tools…. It usually gets me smile, back slapping or an offer of beer.
BUT IN NO WAY WOULD I EVER GO BACK OR RECOMMEND THAT ANYONE DO SO. Been there, done that, got the scars on the T-shirt.
Scott, do you know anyone that teachs hammer & chisel specifically? All the courses I see are centered on power assist.
seems like the hammer is a dying art at least in the USA.
I learned with hammer and chisel, and used it for roughly 10 years before switching to the Gravermax, quite by accident, as it turned out but thats another story..that and a certain Mr. Alfano was involved. Well, maybe I should explain a bit more. The Gravermax was bought soley for my wife to stipple background with, and the Gravermax would pay for itself solely on that basis, since she was doing stipple with hammer and chisel stipple and Sam had assured me that what took 8 hours to stipple with hammer and chisel, could be done in 2 hours with a GMax.... he had just gotten one and was amazed, and was telling me to get one , anyway that's the condensed version. This was back in '91 BTW.
Anyway, prior to this I had taught both week long and weekend seminars using hammer and chisel, and push gravers. Quite frankly I was wearing a little bit of a chip on my shoulder, since I was using "traditional tools" my work was better somehow since I was'nt using those "newfangled" power things. Since I used the foot turn vise system, pretty uncommon in those days, I believed that the only advantage Graver-max-miester, or N-graver gave you was the lack of having to stop mid scroll to move the vise or your body. With the foot turned vise I thought I could cut just as fast as the power guys, and use traditional tools, so as I say, I was a bit proud that my work was intrinsically better somehow because I was'nt cheating using the new stuff. All this to say that learning, using, marketing my work, and even teaching, I was a hard core hammer and chisel fan.
OK, I was trying to stay out of the longer story but I guess bit more of how I got converted to the Gravermax is necessary. 1991, I was seriously doing high end knives, the Knifemaker’s Guild show was THE SHOW, very few other shows even existed at that time. Engraving wise, I had two complete work setups, my wife doing background removal and stippling and me doing all the design, layout, scroll, and inlay work. Time being money, cutting 6 hours off the stippling time alone was a worth while for my wifes time, so I took Sam’s advice and ordered the GraverMax at the Knifemaker’s Guild show from then long-time GRS employee Jeff Hogan. He had of course been after me for sometime to convert, and really thought it a coup that such a confirmed hammer and chisel guy was buying a Gravermax. But I as I say , in my mind, it was bought for one task for my wife to use. It was not for me to use for REAL engraving.
Engraving was mostly feast or famine, doing the big jobs, and multiple big or middle size jobs leading up to the Guild show was always famine, waiting for the feast of delivery at the Guild show. I normally came back from Orlando with 15 or 20 thousand dollars cash, both from engraving commissions and spec knives that I had bought and engraved and sold on my own. So what happened next really came at a good time, if such can come at a good time. Trying to be a good Samaritan late at night, I got run over on the Interstate , an idiot ran three feet into the emergency lane to hit me, knocked me about 20 feet, and I literally nearly bleed to death before getting to the hospital. Condensed version, but one of my legs was fractured, and the calf muscle was ripped in two, where his bumper had clipped me at 70 mph. I also broke his windshield and tore off his passenger side mirror (Thank You Ralph Nader) and was a scab from head to toe. This happened two weeks after the Guild show, so as I say, I was sitting on a significant portion of my year’s income, so that part was good. Tommy Clark, of Blue Ridge knifes, whom I had bought 5 or 6 thousand dollars worth of knifes from at the show, sent me my money back when he heard, and told me to pay him back when ever I got back on my feet. Sam Alfano, bless his heart too, had offered to finish up any knifes I needed done to get paid for, but really I had’nt done much since I got back…(enjoying that feast don’t ya know!) Okay, enough of the gore, the point of all this was to get back on my feet, I had to get my feet back, since the only way I knew how to engrave was using my feet, barefooted as it were, to turn this disc at the bottom of the vise. I could’nt do that with a broken leg that was swollen up like a big fat sausage and was going to be out of commission for 3 or4 months at least. My wife and I both are doing this engraving as I said, so its pretty much our sole source of income….What to do?…….. Of course , my package from GRS had showed the week I was in the hospital, and after I was home and feeling capable of sitting up, I tore into those boxes from Kansas, and I figured out pretty quick , Hey, I can turn this work with my hand now, I don’t really need my feet… So I learned how to use the Gravermax and never looked back….. well mostly.
Now finally to answer the question, originally presented, I am sure that there are some hammer only classes here and there. FEGA publishes every year a comprehensive list of classes and schools around the US and world and I quite sure I have seen some, but don’t know any specifically.. But, since 1995 I have been teaching for GRS, and there is nothing taught that is not applicable to hammer and chisel. I really don’t think that would be any different from anyone’s class. I have had students who brought their hammer and chisels, and used them in the class some… There is nothing explicity different from the two techniques in terms of mechanics. Only the power source. I initially teach graver angles from standard one size fits all viewpoint, and at the end of the week we discuss the need to personalize heel angles, and face angles based on the factors like magnification used, styles done, and bench heights that will determine what angles are best for your needs. Exactly the same is needed to be done for hammer and chisel, so I would FIRST OF ALL I WOULD SAY THAT YOU WILL LOSE ABSOLUTELY NOTHING by taking a power class from GRS, or Ray Cover, or Johnny Wyatt or whomever… Hey GRS even sells custom made hammers now ironically enough.
However, the second thing I would say is, and I have said it before, I see people doing work on Friday afternoon of a 5 day class with power assist tools, that it took me 2 years to get to with hammer and chisel, working/practicing pretty much full time. Seen it happen too many times…. I personally think you are crazy to try to learn with hammer and chisel if you want to do good work. There are too many distractions and cares of life, to learn the hard way. Hobbies are relegated to small amounts of time and with hammer and chisel, 99% of the people reading this board, don’t have that time available to get good with a hammer and chisel. If you want to get to a reasonable level of work in a reasonable amount of time on a part time basis, remember I was practicing for 2 years basicially full time, the ONLY WAY TO MAKE THAT HAPPEN is with power assist…. That’s my firm opinion, take it for what it’s worth.
I can, and everyone once in a while to prove it to myself, will cut a little something with a hammer, and TBH, it has been a bit of door opening when in various engraver’s shops, or engraving schools in Europe, when I get an upturned nose at me when I say I use a power tool, that I can grab up a hammer and stand up (or sit down) at their bench and cut away with their tools…. It usually gets me smile, back slapping or an offer of beer.
BUT IN NO WAY WOULD I EVER GO BACK OR RECOMMEND THAT ANYONE DO SO. Been there, done that, got the scars on the T-shirt.
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