Question: Light that shines on engravings

[Arnaud Van Tilburgh]

It is not something new, and probably we all struggle sometimes with this problem.
In my experience daylight work best to look at engravings, neon light works well too.
Spot lights however, prevents it to see an engraving properly.

So if I show a engraving to a customer that is interested in this kind of work, I have to explain them how to look at it.
Especially scenes are harder to see properly, and if it is on a pendant like my wolf at full moon, it does not always look the same when one will wear it.

That is why I have this question: do you experience the same and is there a way to make an engraving looks better in any lights?

arnaud

 

[jetta77]

Arnaud, nope your not the only one that struggles w this problem. Engravers call it the sweet spot where the object is tilted into the right light. This is especially problematic w dot or bulino engraving. I just watched Chris Decamillis's video again last night and he addresses these issues w new graver geometry and techniques. I've actually switched from a 116 graver to a 96 for alot of work because it creates a darker line and can be viewed better. It doesnt cut as well and you'll need to sand down burrs. The wider gravers are awesome and cut like no other but I would advise you to try new geometries and get Chris's bulino dvd... My 2 cents...

Also can other WISER engravers also jump in here and give thier advise. I think this is a topic worth discussing...

 

[Arnaud Van Tilburgh]

I just watched Chris Decamillis's video again last night and he addresses these issues w new graver geometry and techniques. I've actually switched from a 116 graver to a 96 for alot of work because it creates a darker line and can be viewed better. It doesnt cut as well and you'll need to sand down burrs. The wider gravers are awesome and cut like no other but I would advise you to try new geometries and get Chris's bulino dvd... My 2 cents...

Jeff, or it is I misread this but you are telling the opposite; I only recent ordered the DVD from Chris, but I saw a short piece of it that is on youtube.
It shows, the wider the angle, the darker the lines.

I must say I already uses the new geometry Chris showed us using a C-max as that is escential to make it that black


Thanks for your comment, and it is good knowing I’m not the only one that discovered the the sweet spot

arnaud

 

[jetta77]

Arnaud, Chris goes up to 105, but adds the cuts get lighter you get after, 110,116,120 ect.... I'm just saying try something different and see what YOU get...

 

[Arnaud Van Tilburgh]

Jeff, are you saying that 105° is the limit? That a 90° is darker than a 80° but that wider than a 105° is not blacker.
So in other words does Chris tell us that the 105° is the blackest?

Sorry if I insist, but I really want to know it right, and I still have to wait on my order for the DVD

arnaud

 

[Andrew Biggs]

Hi Arnaud

Yes, in Chris' DVD he says that the 105 gives the blackest cut for what he is doing. But the other factor is that he highly polishes the graver so it creates a shiny cut that reflects the light and makes it appear darker.

Other things come into it like layering the cuts and all sorts of things. It's all on the DVD and Chris goes to great lengths to demonstrate what he is saying.

Cheers
Andrew

 

[Arnaud Van Tilburgh]

Thank you Andrew, I know about the high polished graver, that is why Chris mentioned the new C max graver.
And sure it make sense, the more light is reflected, the darker is will show up.
Can’ hardly wait to watch the DVD. :big grin:

And this is my 1000 ste post :banana:

arnaud

 

[SamW]

Arnaud, I don't think you will ever solve the lighting problem completely. I put together a small light with diffuser that I take to the Reno show so that I can show my detailed work to best advantage when someone is really interested. Otherwise the lighting at the show is the pits!

I also find many people are vain to the degree that they will not wear their glasses in public and when you show your work to them you can tell by the slightly blank look on their face and the weak response you get that they can't really see the work anyway. Always offer a lens for closer viewing. Good luck....and when you solve the problem you will get rich.

PS...789 to go

 

[Willem Parel]

And this is my 1000 ste post :banana:

arnaud

Congratulations

 

[tundratrekers@mtaonline.n]

glare

arnaud,i melt some bees wax,add about 50% olive oil,until i get a consistency stiffer then chap stick.rub with your finger,and apply a thin coat to the work.glare gone!! also allows easy viewing when you draw through the wax with a pencil. maybe have your light coming into the work with a lower angle of attack,instead of straight down.God Bless,mike

 

[Barry Lee Hands]

There are a number of different way to cut things to make it viewable at different angles, or multiple angles.
Torcoli's work, for instance. The sweet spot is hard to find, but when you do, you can see everything.
Creative Arts, I have noticed there stuff is easier to see, but harder to see everything from any one angle.
Old world engravers would generally really not like the following sugestion, but if you lightly blast with aluminum oxide, at say 15 psi, everything is much easier to see.
It takes out the glare, and thusly gives you a huge sweet spot.
The brighter your finish, the harder to see the work.

 

[John B.]

I agree with you, Barry.
On both the blast and that many Old world engravers would not like it.
If time and price are in play on the job it gives a good, quick foundation to work from.
Such as the wolf job that Arnaud was working on where master work is not required.

In order to not hijack this post or your great thread I will make a post of my method.
Would love to hear your method and learn more from you.
Best.

 

[Arnaud Van Tilburgh]

Thanks Willem

Mike I will give it a try your trick with the beeswax.

Barry, I don’t know what Torcoli’s is, but I will look for it on the internet.

John, I have no problem with “hijack this post” as it is all good information.
I also have read your tread about “non master bulino” , I think I found a good in between way to do a bulino scene, I will show it once I finished my second wolf at full moon.

arnaud

 

[Sam]

Saw W's suggestion of using a light diffuser at shows is good. Steve Lindsay used to use one at knife shows and the engravings were perfectly illuminated. What he had was a fluorescent fixture behind a white panel enclosed in a box and mounted above a shallow showcase with glass top. The result was similar to a photographer's softbox, and the engraved items reflected the white panel and you could easily see every detail.

Engraver Martin Butler used to hold the backside of a business card above his bulino engraving when showing his work to people. This produced (sort of) the same effect as a softbox.

Chris DeCamillis has solved much of the hard-to-see bulino problems with greatly improved graver geometry and polish which makes cuts nice and black.

 

[KCSteve]

Since film has faded they might be harder to find but I'm pretty sure they still make a nice little battery-powered lightbox for looking at slides & such.

Let me pop open another window and check something....

Ok, this one might be more than you want to spend but it's a good example.
click here to see one at B&H Photo. I've got a real cheap one from Wal-Mart that was under $20.

 

[Arnaud Van Tilburgh]

Thank you all for your input on this , but to me it seems we all need the right light and angle to look at engravings.
I did not see one of Chris bulino’s that were done by his new geometry, I only have a un-inked casting.
It is a bit of a contradiction I think, his lines are very shiny that is in my opinion the reason why they look more black, so everything one would put on these will reflect less the lights.

arnaud