"More stuff" rhetorical response

[pilkguns]

No offence taken whatsoever!

I would have to disagree with your assumption that the engravers were apprentices or journeymen. On the contrary, the makers were some of the most highly regarded craftsmen of their time .........Be careful not to confuse age related wear with lack of quality; the tongs are more than a hundred years younger (c. 1809) than either of the snuff boxes and so appear fresher and finer.

Oz, Be careful in mistaken in mistaking famous names for qood quality work. I stand by my statements that the engraving is of poor quality irregardless of wear. Also consider that many silversmiths had apprentices to do various parts of the overall piece, and is very possible that the piece was not engraved by the master, who was busy managing the business... see mine and other posts in this thread regarding that necessity.

Roger, please see my thread about Benvenuto
http://www.igraver.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1621

 

[Kerry Bogan]

Great thread
I was trained as a machinist/toolmaker and engrave as a hobby but would like to do it professionally. I had my own machine shop for 20 years and the question was quite often what did the customer want versus what could they afford. I think this is true with any business. Also if you are good and efficient (but make a profit) you can compete for higher end business but to get there I had to learn to be good and efficient on lower end work first.
Kerry

 

[Ron Smith]

You all have very good points and it is interesting, your approaches and reasons for enjoying this art. It is a good subject, a good hobby, and a good occupation, and the things we mentioned are very often left out of ones progression. I am very grateful for any interest on whatever level, as it gives great respect and understanding to those who have paid the price to get and keep this art going when they were in almost total isolation. The most important people in this genre however, are the students. They have been something sorely needed because ignorance was killing the trade, and the public was loosing touch with hand wrought items, but the inspirational effect of the "perfection" approach has worked its magic to stimulate involvement. Those who try to achieve it are inspirations to us all, and the more practical approach shows us also, that you can do it as an occupation as well.

As you all know, the constant obvious lack of understanding around us is something we all have to deal with daily and it is frustrating for you to have to face that day in and day out I know, but that love and passion that drives us is bigger than that.

I am so proud to have lived in a time when I can see the revival of the art, as there was a time I thought it was going to go into the pages of history and be replaced with technology. I am sure now that this won't happen, thanks to all of you younger guys and gals. You will carry the ball and educate and inspire those around you, which is your future and those that come after you.

Occupational engraving has a lot of kinks, and the knowledge to run a business of engraving is almost gone, but, I think that will be the next stage in the learning of this art. There will be those, willing to take the beating just for the sake of the art, probably because they are just compelled to do it against all odds. Luckily, it has become respected enough through the efforts of those who have come before us to get the prices up where one can make a decent and even profitable living at it. It will get better if we all make a commitment to educate everyone we come in contact with and expose it to younger people. They are the potential future engravers and/or buyers and collectors.

To add to the myriad of things an engraver has to be and do. Photography, and that used to be much harder than it is now. Carpentry (on a basic level), inventor, gadget maker (fixtures and holding jigs), mechanic, promoter (probably the hardest of all), public relations, saviour Ha Ha!! ( has to know how to get himself out of trouble), Plater and refinisher/polisher(correcting errors), amateur metalergist, any other trade you can learn to keep a consistent flow of work, and gardener (to help keep your sanity). But ain't it all fun and creatively stimulating??? Creators just have to create, and the self satisfaction that comes with that is not measurable!! It is a great self esteem booster and an anchor to be able to have control of your own destiny when and if you choose, and the only real, true freedom there is. That to me has been the greatest reward.

There are many booby traps out there too. How to lay out inscriptions on difficult shapes, how to detect metal and plating composition etc. (much more important with the hand push method), and that almost requires being in an engraving shop to see all of the metals, merchandise, and platings etc. the engraver must know in order to approach the job so he doesn't get himself in a jam. Have I scared any one off yet??.............I doubt it!........Thanks for you input.....Forward!!

Anyway, it was a fun subject and not one talked about much..............Ron S