New engraving machine announcement.

[KCSteve]

I just had a thought - with what would probably be a lot of work you could add a 'scanner' side and then we'd finally have a way to get 'prints' of engravings.

I've heard it said here that that is one of the things that's kept engraving from having the 'status' of other fine arts - the lack of inexpensive copies.

Yes, having a system out there that can 'pirate' your engravings would be a bad thing, but having the ability to produce something better than a cast would be a good thing, so it's all in how it's used (in that day when it's eventually available).

 

[Leonardo]

How it works.

Hello again,

Steve, a scanner can not generate vector graphics which are needed by the machine.
It is necessary to do a design with a cad program to have that vector graphics ready to be engraved. You can scan a image but then you should trace it generating that vectors.

The concept is as follow:
- You have colors that represent behaviors.
- Using this colors you design or trace the work to be engraved.
- When you have it done, you can launch the Plug-in that is really a CAM.
- From the Plug-in you can control all the machine settings.
- With the sliding controls you can change the shape inflexion point, moving it back and forward as desired.
This inflexion point will be as deep as the depth setting.
- Black shapes are the flat ones, I mean they run always at the same depth.
- When you are ready to engrave, just clicking on the GO button the machine will start engraving the job.

I am attaching a two pictures that hope can help in the explanation.

Thank you very much Sam for the permission for the use of your letter “Sâ€￾ design.

Cheers,
Leonardo

 

[Mike Cirelli]

Leonard I'm looking at this and it looks like nothing really new. Please don't take that as an offensive remake it's not meant to be. I'm not a cad cam expert but the cam machine I have in my shop (collecting dust) works on the same principal. The software has the ability to cut different depths by designating colors. I found that more difficult to do, I preferred Rhino 3-d software then sent it to a tool path software that set the tool path automatically. But that's for 3 dimensional objects. The thing I see that's different is the designation of width, with yours by looking at the cutters the deeper you go the wider the cut, on mine the width is designated by the width of the end mill used or by making multiple passes. And you also eliminated the rotation. It looks like a nice design because of the ability to make a wider cut without cutting multiple single cuts. If the software is able to set the tool path easily (like in automatic) that will make it most desirable. I wish you well with marketing.

 

[Andrew Biggs]

Hi Leonardo

I take my hat off to anyone that can invent anything. Your machine by the looks of it is great. I suspect the inventing it was the easy part and the advertising/selling it will be the difficult and expensive part .

There's always room in the world for another machine that will do something clever. Your competition is feirce, but that is normal in any business.

Machine and handengraving are two different markets and each has its place in the world. My thoughts tend to be along the lines of Ray Cover.

It is interesting to note that the gap between the two is getting narrower.

Good luck on your new venture, I hope you sell lots of them.

Cheers
Andrew

 

[Marcus Hunt]

For this machine to be any use to the gun engraving world it's going to have to be able to tackle awkwardly shaped parts automatically. Now I don't know about you guys, but I don't know what the hell a radiused scroll looks like when taken from the detonating of a shotgun action and then flattened out so the computer recognises it. How is a machine going to recognise such awkwardly shaped parts and keep the cutter moving in the correct plane? For flat work or cylinders I don't see a problem but on a shotgun the only flat parts are the sides.

From what I see so far, this machines cuts are the closest I've seen to hand engraving. The inability to taper the cut from thin to thick and shallow to deep has always been the machine engraved giveaway.

By the way, what is it priced in? Euros or dollars? At between €20-29,000 that's a lot of money whichever way you look at it! That's nearly a year's profits for some (even if priced in dollars). You'd have to be guaranteed work for the machine to make an investment like that! Then, being machine engraved, clients are going to want to pay the absolute minimum per unit cut so again profit's are going to be small unless you get a huge turnover. Where it will work is if gunmakers such as Beretta, Browning, Perrazzi, etc get one for in house engraving.

 

[pierre]

hello every body, I know that a lot of engraver already use cnc machine on guns it's not new, before they use acid method and now it's the laser technology, at the iwa i saw a lot of engraving mixed with the laser and hand chisel.
It's not a problem if you know what you buy but someone said to me that all the work was hand made and the price was like a hand made work.
for gold inlay, the laser do all the first work and you have perfect line and ornement or animals surfaces.
they do the same with the names,the background removal,..
i repeat this is not a problem if you use technology for mass engraving but i saw unique engraving made with the help of such machine.

 

[D'Angelo]

Food for thought on this. Which of the following is true hand engraving?

 

[Leonardo]

I am sure that the second one is LASER engraved. The LASER loose the focus in the curves when the object can not be rotated. Look the scroll at the right of the cilinder.
Talking about money, a laser machine suitable to do this kind of jobs should to be a ndYag laser, so we are talking about $70,000 and it can not mill.

 

[Mike Cirelli]

It's a little hard to tell from the picture but I'd be willing to bet the top one is done by hand.
My thinking is on the lower gun the lower scroll above the trigger is somewhat distorted where it would normally be started by hand. Also the treatment on the front of the frame is a bit odd. But what the heck do I know.

 

[D'Angelo]

The one on the bottom is Computerized engraving done with some sort of actual cutters. When I was at S&W I saw these and have to admit.....they are very close to hand engraving.To the un-trained eye, one would not be able to tell the difference.

 

[Jordi]

As Pierre said, when I was at the IWA show I could see how really most (+90%) of the ornaments on firearms were made with laser and other non-handmade technology. One could see the difference quickly, of course. And they were not intended to be exclusive and customized engravings. So yes, there are two different markets, and Leonardo's is on the 'machine side'.

I've seen Leonardo's plate with my own eyes, and it really surpasses the quality of what I had seen anywhere made by a machine. Some parts could be taken as if made by a graver for a non-expert eye! It looks like a graver has been raising that metal, with the faceted and clean effect it produces. Congratulations for that.

After long talking with him about his project, he wanted to leave clear that his aim is not 'imitating' in the sense of 'replacing' hand engravings by machine-made ones. First, his is an effort to bring better quality engravings to the industry of ornamentation. And yes, he is aware of the limits of his machine, as it is still a prototype.

And second, his intention with this thread is to offer this invention to artists as a means to making our work easier when it comes to mass production, for deep metal removing, etc... As someone said, factories should look at this machine with interest, but we hand engravers could take some profit of it also (if we had one available, of course ).

Finally, the machine will always be in need of the artist, the good designer, who feeds it with new ideas. That's the road to the future: inevitably, technical issues are going to be solved easier from now on thanks to technology, so we should concentrate on improving our creativity and designing skills as best as possible.

I know him personally and I appreciate how he honestly respects the work of us hand engravers. I want to wish Leonardo good luck in his endeavour.

 

[Leonardo]

Thank you Jordi my friend and teacher!! You are really a grat person and artist!!


I was re-reading all the post and I can see that almost all of you are talking about the gun engraving market. This is your main business and specialty and I can understand your point of view perfectly and even agree with you. It is obviously that a person who spend a big money in a high quality gun will want to have it engraved “proportionally”. Also I guess he would be interested in the name and professional background of the engraver. He want to have a jewel.

BUT, there are a big world down here, a lot of people that would like to have a thing with some “pretty” as was perfectly said by Marcus.
I develop this machine principally for the jewelers market, that is the market in witch I am involved.
I can tell you that I start my engraving business buying a Gravograph IS200 (a New Hermes for USA) and I have paid my bills working with this little machine day after day and doing small and fast jobs that run from as little as 3 euros to 25 / 30 euros. It is possible to amortize the machine (I spent about 12,000 euros in that initial set up) and earn the money to pay the bills too. I did it.

In that day after day job the jewelers used to ask me that try to mark the pieces deeper in a way that it seem in some way a hand engraved. I always must to explain that it is impossible to achieve the hand engraving quality doing the job with a diamond drag technique. And, at last, it was what spark the idea of doing a machine that will be able to engrave like hand engraving.
You do not like to see hoe awful looks a signet with a monogram diamond dragged!! But there are a lot of people that cannot or do not want to spend money engraving a ring or a pendant, etc. Also it is important to considerate that the jeweler double (at least) the price that they pay for the engraving service, so the final price for the customer run up very quickly.
Also, there is the commemorative plates market. What about hand engraving a 200 characters plate at 0.10 (10 cents) euros per character. Would you hand engrave that plates? I guess you don’t!

Well, this is my point of view and the market for the machine was developed. Do not worry about the guns market, it is absolutely safe for you!

I only want to add that I thank you very much your interest and comments. Almost all of you are incredible artist and deserve my admiration for your stunning works.

Kindest regards,
Leonardo.

 

[richard hall]

sounds like kind words from a humble man. felt good to be called an incredible artist, yeah, i know , he said almost all of you !!!! my work will improve someday, i really have to take those lessons !!!!!

 

[aramis gulbeyan sr]

looks ok but there is nothig like cut engraving
aramis gulbeyan

 

[monk]

the pantograph turned the world of the jewelry engraver upside down. the jewelry engraver survived. maybe changed the way they worked, but they survived. any of you who feels threatned by the machine, relax, don't look at the sky- remember it's falling. i don't think a machine will replace any of you- unless you let it !
jm2cw

 

[bluebird]

When I look at the photos of the engraving it does,it is too perfect,the lines are too consistent.While we strive to do the best we can ,it is the inconsistenies that make us truly human.While I can admire the extremes one can can go to achieving technical brilliance ,it is the character of the person that is revealed in the quality of the line.The closer one gets to "perfection"the truth becomes evident that it is a diminishing return as the goal post keeps moving.Others might not see (our flaws.our mistakes)but ourselves know.
This machine takes a whole lot of previous knowledge to operate and will benefit some as it should.It will not destroy the hand engraving market,those who love the the quality yet value the flaws we have as human wil still continue to pursue the best they can afford.If you are an artist you can't expect to get rich,you will get by but you will enjoy the meaningfulness of improving your skills and experimenting with new ideas.Money is just there to help with food and shelter while you get to explore.The joy of trying and of challenging ourselves is the real purpose.

 

[Leonardo]

Hi you all!

Here is, at last, the link to the machine site.
There you can find information about the machine, a brochure, some photographs taken in the Geneva Exhibition, videos and news.

Unfortunately I have hadn’t time to put the machine to engrave Andrew’s Mr. Potato Head Scroll yet, but I am working on it in my spare time. I will post it soon!

The website is at http://www.artesa-nc.com

Hope you enjoy it. Leonardo.

 

[KCSteve]

Hey, congrats on that Silver Medal!

 

[Mike Cirelli]

Congratulations Leonardo on your silver medal.

 

[richard hall]

LEO, this means even I could turn out some good looking engraving. BEST WISHES on your venture and may you and your wife get to take more vacations in the future. IDEAS are born when you can relax more. congratulations in all that you have achieved.