Question: Old world techniques?

[Mario Sarto]

Since i joined this forum, my English comes better (thank you all). So i took the change to read more websites in English language. On several (particular on jewelry sites) they use this term: "old world techniques"
I understand the single words, but what do they mean together? What are old world techniques?

Mario

 

[Marrinan]

Mario.
when used together they are generally a marketing tool implying or suggesting that the thing is made with some long lost better skills from Eourpe that only they know how to do - older methods are better is another way to say it-Fred

 

[James Miller]

Mario,
I am in the UK and my old workshop used the wording "Old World Techniques" when describing that an item had been made totally by hand, without the use of powered machinery. When I first joined this workshop in 1961 we used a treadle operated lathe, foot operated bellows on the forge and mouth blown blowtorches at the bench. The only electricity used in the workshop was for lighting.

 

[Mario Sarto]

Now i understand what this means, thank you both! But .... these techniques are not lost! A lot of us do still work in that manner.
We still have and use the foot operated bellows on the forge and mouth blown blowtorches at the bench because we need them (we don't use CAD/CAM).
OK then - like many others, we use "old world techniques", too

Thank you again for the explanation.
Mario

 

[Roger Keagle]

Such a great place to be...

Old World Techniques are what we do here...working by hand, with only our eyes and years of practice to guide us...

 

[Mario Sarto]

I fogot something - i will take the chance to ask you James: i have seen your wonderful work here and in other places. Do you use a spinning lathe or/and do forge all by hand? And one more: the enamel you use, what temperatures does it need?
Mario

 

[Sam]

"Old world" generally refers to Europe, in the case of techniques used in America. Another phrase you'll see occasionally is "old school", which means 'old methods'. For instance, my engraving background is old school since I used hammer & chisel and push gravers. An old school artist might be one who uses paints and brushes as opposed to a computer.

Your English is great, Mario!

Sam

 

[Mario Sarto]

Sam, so there is nothing negative in this phrase? Rather it sounds positiv depending on what the reader likes?
It help to describe how a work was done.
In this case i can say i like the "old school" with hammer and chisel - for myself i never will try it - it seems to be much harder to learn. Kudos to you, who can! I am glad, i can use push and air tools...

And thank you for the compliment - i have made a decision: to pratice my English i'll build a website in English and German to illustrate the "old world techniques" on jewelry for everyone.
Mario

 

[James Miller]

I fogot something - i will take the change to ask you James: i have seen your wonderful work here and in other places. Do you use a spinning lathe or/and do forge all by hand? And one more: the enamel you use, what temperatures does it need?
Mario

Hi Mario,
I am glad you like my work, to answer your questions, yes for even shaped circular items I use spinnings, but uneven shapes are shaped by hammer. The enamels are all hard fired and need to reach temperatures of around 850 degrees centigrade to fire,so the kiln runs at about 1100 degrees centigrade as the item is watched while being fired with the kiln door open, transparent enamels take the highest firing temperatures and some opaque colours can be lower temperatures. I am now semi retired after 48 years in this trade as a goldsmith, but I still enjoy fabricating with metals. I can spend all day saw piercing.
Regards James

 

[Mario Sarto]

... I still enjoy fabricating with metals. I can spend all day saw piercing.

This is good to read, Sir! Thank you take the time to answer. I take my hat off to your work - because of my own painful trials with enamel i know well that your work is on the highest level.
Mario

 

[Arnaud Van Tilburgh]

Mario, we are from the old world as we learned in school about the new world America!
And sure our world is not really older, but as "America" has its independence in 1776, there was one "world" before that, but there is not much left of its culture.
That is why it is called "new" I think.

arnaud

 

[Mario Sarto]

Arnaud, the day will come we are on cloud nine, forging and engraving harps, we will understand there is only one world
Back on topic - the cause i did not get in my head was/is: the artists in America craft wonderful jewelry. To do so, they need techiques that have to be suitable. Otherwise they couldn't do their work as they did. That is why i always thougt, their process is similar to mine. Now you can imagine how astonished i was to read from "techniques of the old world". The more i think about the more i want to know how they work.
I hope you understand my attempted explanation.
Mario

 

[gail.m]

Mr. Miller,
God has truly blessed you when you can say you can enjoy a day doing saw piercing!
I found your tip about outlining the piercing with the graver to be a great help, but for me it is difficult to saw the thinner gauges.
gailm

 

[Sam]

Mario: No, there's nothing negative associated with the term "old world". It simply refers to the original way something was done years ago or in a place where it started.
Cheers / Sam

 

[monk]

no, mario- the terms are by no means negative ! i think many of our young engravers wish they knew some of the "old world" techniques, or a few of the "old school ways". so many youngsters today are so involved today with technology, they have forgotton the beauty of, or perhaps never even came to know the precious old ways of doing things. i feel that's a pitiful situation, but perhaps i'm just a pitiful old fool !
by the way, mario, i don't think any of us had a problem with you use of english. we all understood all your posts perfectly well, so no problem there, friend !

 

[James Miller]

Mr. Miller,
God has truly blessed you when you can say you can enjoy a day doing saw piercing!
I found your tip about outlining the piercing with the graver to be a great help, but for me it is difficult to saw the thinner gauges.
gailm

Hello Gail,
May I give you another tip for sawing thin gauges of metals. I do a lot of pierced inlays when restoring antique tortoiseshell boxes and thes inlays use paper thin golds. The method I use when engraving and piercing these patterns is that I use superglue and stick the thin metals onto a thicker gauge piece of copper. Then after engraving the pattern and then piercing it out, you just gently heat the metals and the superglue burns leaving the thin piercings.
Here is a photo of a box I restored showing the results of the above method used when making and inlaying a missing scroll to a pique box.
James Miller FIPG.

 

[Kevin P.]

James, always wonderful to see more of your work. And very nice of you to offer that piercing tip; something to store away in the brain for a future project.
Kevin P.

 

[gail.m]

Thank you James for another tip for saw piercing. It will be put to good use.
I am looking forward to seeing your book.
gailm

 

[Kevin P.]

Mario, first of all "subice te rebus et impera!" is in what language and would you translate into English please. I thought at first Latin but I dredged up my Latin from way back and think it's not.
I'm going to compose a longer post on "old world" on WORD and then post. I am a new world jeweler.
Kevin P.

 

[Mario Sarto]

Mario, first of all "subice te rebus et impera!"

Hello Kevin,
it is Latin! It is my personal motto (you'll find others mostly under family-crets), my philosophy of life. Literally translated: subdue to the things in order to dominate/conquer them
Subdue (or comply) means, first i have to understand how things work, on on which (rules) they are based. I have to comply to these rules to learn and practice under them. If i am painstaking in what i do, i will master it. To make this long story short: first i have to learn to walk upright before i can run fast

I'm going to compose a longer post on "old world" on WORD and then post. I am a new world jeweler.

That's neat - i am looking forward to read it!
Mario