Power Gravers

[R.Runyan]

Hello all,

Question, Are the power gravers worth the money? I've been engraving for 24 years and have never used one. I noticed some of the threads mention power gravers, and I was just wondering how many of you use them, and if they are worth it.
I'm still stuck in the old school and have never upgraded to power tools outside of an old beat up Foredom hand piece. Hell I still create trim punch and plates by hand...lol. Maybe it's time I get with the program and upgrade eh. I don't really use gravers as much as I do punches, chisels and stones. But if I were to get me one of them there power gravers, maybe after 20+ years I could start making some $$$$$$...lol

O-well, sometimes it's not about the money.

Let me hear your thoughts please.

Thanx, Robin

 

[Steve Adams]

Robin,
I have a power engraver, however I still use hammer and chisel, gravers, a foredom and punches of course. The power graver can't take the heavy or wide cuts I can do with a chisel, but it is useful in medium to light duty cuts, and especially fine cuts, not to mention it frees up a hand to move the work instead of stopping and turning. You can also use a high speed rotary with a GRS unit, which in some cases is helpful like the foredom, but would never replace a flex shaft totally. I still use traditional tools 85% of the time.

 

[AllanFink1960]

Robin
Are you referring to the Foredom PowerGraver? or power assisted tools in general?

 

[R.Runyan]

Power assisted in general, What would you recommend as far as a power graver?

Thanx, Robin

 

[Peter E]

If ever "different strokes for different folks" was applicable....it would be here.

Best thing to do if possible would be to try the tools and make your decision based on what YOU feel best using.

If you check the forum you will find some threads discussing each. Probably the most popular "power assisted" tools for engraving are GRS Gravermach/Gravermax and the Lindsay Airgraver.

Good Luck,
Peter

 

[Steve Adams]

I have a gravermax Robin, this is what I refer to as a power engraver and is air driven. Both rotary and engraving tools are run from it. Foredom is the flex shaft naturally, I should have distinguished the two. The gun and knife guys are not as heaving handed as I, so the above advise I gave is from one die engraver to another. Having hand engraved steel dies as large as a coffee table, I've not found a complete substitute for a hammer and chisel yet. This doesn't mean I won't use a power engraver. it just sees limited use in my shop. The Foredom flex shaft sees a lot of use, of course the Gorton pantograph does too. I wouldn't spend the bucks unless you will be doing other kinds of engraving, but I will say that the Gravermax is great for stippling large dies. You'll need to make your own punches for it though.

 

[R.Runyan]

Thanx Guys,

I'll give it some more thought.

Robin

 

[monk]

no matter how you do it, it's a joy to do engraving. if you desire to earn money, the power assisted way will speed things up. time is money. any of the tricks that can shave time from a given job, without adversely affecting the quality, are surely the way to do things if you're tryin to rake in some money. there aint nothing wrong with reducing the time required to do a given job, if the quality remains as good as you can make it.

 

[aramis gulbeyan sr]

no matter what you use or what tool end result conunts
aramis

 

[Phil Coggan]

Robin,
There's nothing wrong with 'old school'.

Phil

 

[Danny C]

I might suggest looking at:

http://www.engravingforum.com/forumdisplay.php?f=2

Most (not all) of these guys use a Palm Control or Foot operated Air Graver unit. These units can do as much or more than a hammer and chisel. They can take a very wide and deep cut. They are easy to control and use. True this is the Rolls of engravers, but you get what you pay for.

Generally speaking they are more powerful and easier to control than a GRS - but you did ask

As for "upgrading skills", the PC (palm control) would be the easiest and give you the greatest ability.

Given your past experience, I'd recommend a very good look at the Lindsay.

http://www.lindsayengraving.com/menu.htm

I believe he still offers a return if you don't like it. You'll know after about 20 minutes. After about 3 hours you won't give it up (not just my opinion).

Try it - You'll like it.

PS the answer is NO - buying or using a GRS is NOT the same as using a Lindsay. There is nothing wrong with the GRS per say, but the ONLY thing they have in common is air.

 

[Sam]

Generally speaking they are more powerful and easier to control than a GRS - but you did ask

Danny: I respectfully disagree with that statement. I find GRS tools extremely powerful and can engrave a gnat's eyelashes with them.

My advice is, and has always been, to test both systems and buy what suits you best.

Cheers / Sam

 

[Marcus Hunt]

Hi Robin, I've been engraving for 30 years now and went over to air assisted tools about 7 or 8 years ago after trying the GraverMax my father had just got. You could not have gotten more 'old school' than the pair of us!!! However, not only does air assistance help as regards health issues (e.g. wear and tear on limbs, etc), both of us found it opened up a whole new dimension to our engraving. I can honestly say it was like being reborn. And now with the advent of GraverMach and Airtact I find I get the feel of hand push with none of the pain or fatigue of actually hand pushing.

Honestly, be open minded and give it a try and you may be pleasantly surprised but please don't think that this is in anyway saying hand push or hammer and chisel have had there day. Use whatever suits you best.

 

[Jim Sackett]

Hi Robin,

Old School is Good, Especialy if your old. I started out in the engraved stationary field. Making steel plates and dies for stamping engraved wedding invitations, business cards and letterheads. Thats where I learned to use a Fordham Flex shaft for making changes on the plates. I also used a verity of straight gravers.

In '68 i moved over to trophy and jewelery hand engraving. While I was at it for about 20 years I was never able to make much mony. In '76 I left the trade and did factory work and sign painting. A little better pay but not much. As I look back at all this I see one of the mistakes I made was not taking advantage of advancements going on in the trade.

I moved but not along with the times. Soooo! Now after 15 years of retirement I am getting back into the trade, kinda. A couple years back I bought an engraving machine from the local jeweler who was retireing. Six months later I bought his hand engraving equipment. Old school, no powerd gravers I would have to learn how to use them anyhow. Today my engraving is a hobby that I enjoy very much.

Parden me for rambling, may be something here will help you.

Jim Sackett

 

[Andrew Biggs]

This thread is about a year old as I see the question was raised in Febuary last year.

I agree with Sam……………….Try all the systems out there if you possibly can. To say one brand of tool is superior or inferior than another is simply misleading and nonsense. By implication it suggests that somehow you are advantaged or disadvantaged by using a particular tool or set of tools. To beginners it can be quite confusing and unsettling.

Tools are a personal thing and the person that uses them builds an intimate knowledge of their various uses and limits. It’s also insulting to the people that just happen to use the tools that you are putting down.

It all boils down to your own personal preference and how well you can use that particular tool. The skill of the mind, understanding and hand that drives the tool is paramount. At the end of the day the graver tip in the metal doesn’t care what brand name is driving it. Give them all a go and see what you like best.

I’ve seen works of art created with hammer and chisel, burin, GRS, Lindsay and N-Graver tools. I’ve also seen some butchers mess’ created with those same tools.

It’s not what you use, it’s how you use it. Develop a good understanding of your tools, sharpening , various gravers, designs and techniques. These are the things that make can make or break a good engraving. Not the brand of tool.

Cheers
Andrew

 

[Sam]

To say one brand of tool is superior or inferior than another is simply misleading and nonsense. By implication it suggests that somehow you are advantaged or disadvantaged by using a particular tool or set of tools. To beginners it can be quite confusing and unsettling.

Andrew, thank you for your comments, and I agree 100%. I really dislike seeing "my tool is better than yours" posts. That's not what this Cafe is about.

~Sam

 

[Mike Cirelli]

I used hand tools for about 24 years. I always thought those air assist tools couldn't do what I needed them to do. I was so wrong. I wish I would have used them way back in the gravermiester days. I've been using them for about 4 years now and have a gravermax and a gravermach. I can push the heaviest bezel or raise the most delicate prong virtually flawlessly. You don't have so much worry of marring or chipping a stone. I will never be without. The only time I have a problem with power is when my handpieces need cleaned. My GRS hammer handpiece is very rarely used because it can be almost to powerful for my needs. It takes a little time getting used to the tools, but going to air in my opinion you can't go wrong.

 

[Phil Coggan]

The comment was made "But if I were to get me one of them there power gravers, maybe after 20+ years I could start making some $$$$$$...lol"
If you can't make any money using conventional tools you sure as hell won't by just the conversion!

The way I work, i'm changing tools every few seconds, for what I see of the power tools, i'd need about four of them! Even if they had a a quick tool change facility, it ain't gonna work!

Phil

 

[Marcus Hunt]

Hi Phil, have you tried air assisted tools? GRS do have a 'Quick Change' system where you just pull out one graver and substitute another be it a graver, chisel, liner, flat or punch. Like you I'm often changing tools every few seconds and the change takes a fraction longer than just picking up another graver. The GraverMach also has a facility for rigging up 2 hand pieces and changing over is a flick of a switch. I tend to use the 901 handpiece for virtually everything nowadays as it's so versatile from being able to cut really deep to extra fine shading. If you need more finesse for really fine game scenes the Monarch is fantastic and if you need to really welly it and shift steel (e.g. chequering bolt handles or top levers, or carving) the Magnum is a beast but it can also cut really delicately too (just see Lee Griffiths' work; he uses one all the time). So it's a really versatile tool that 'does work'! If you ever want to try it out you are more than welcome to come over and try my system at any time.

Whilst I agree wholeheartedly with you that if you can't make money using conventional tools going over to power tools won't miraculously make you do so, where they do help is with output. Not only is cutting quicker with air assistance it helps in that you don't get so fatigued as with hand pushing, hence you can work for longer periods without getting so tired. I'd say someone switching over to air assistance could up their productivity by up to 30% if not more!

In the long run though Phil, if you are happy with what you are using (and the stuff your turning out proves my point that I've always said "Tools are just tools, it's what you do with them that counts." Using an AirGraver won't make you a Steve Lindsay anymore than using a GraverMax/Mach will make you a DeCamillis/Alfano/Ken Hunt) keep going with them; the works of art you are creating prove that the tools you use definitely work for you!

 

[jlseymour]

Robin,
Try to make the engrave-in at Scotts and the power tools will be there, Steve's and GRS...
Bring all them yunguns, it's a family thing...
Ya'll have lota fun...
Jerry