Seeking an engraver

[8lackie]

Hello, I recently wanted a ring engraved. I made a mistake and entrusted my job to an outfit that does various jobs etching flasks, plaques, and rings. This is in part my fault; expectations too high, not understanding the methods used by places that use automated methods to knock out their work.
Suffice to say, I was underwhelmed. Initially the work wasn't even straight on the ring. The second attempt, the crest was too small, and looked mechanical and poorly executed. The ring was ruined and although it wasn't expensive. I think I got what I paid for and it was depressing. Here is what I hoped for.



What I received was this:

The pencil sketch is my frustration because I could not understand how feeble and small the final work looked. Again I take responsibility for perhaps not understanding or communicating what I expected. I received no images of work in progress nor samples of what the vendor could do.
I don't know if the existing ring can be salvaged? Can the surface be ground to be able to do a new attempt? Or if I need to get a new ring and start all over again?
I'd like to try again. I did look a bit through the forums to see if there are artists that are available for work. I didn't seen an area to post this. I'm sorry if I'm in the wrong place. I'm on the east coast of the USA. I'd appreciate hearing what artists here think of this and if anyone might want to attempt a redo, or, I'll purchase another ring and start from scratch. Thanks, Blackie

 

[monk]

the foto looks to be diamond drag from a pantograph. could be cnc. the foto isn't clear enough to tell. the surface could be dealt with if it's not too deep. if the ring is of low value, i'd simply buy another and start all over. the surface could be textured and otherwise be salvaged for some other purpose. the cost involved in restoring this i'd think would be prohibitive. jm2cw.

 

[8lackie]

Thank you for your response. Do you mean the gold ring above, re: diamond drag? The gold ring is from c1973. The silver ring is sterling.

 

[mtlctr]

no disrespect meant, imo this quote fits,
”once the sweetness of a cheap price is gone, the bitterness of poor quality remains “.

 

[8lackie]

Love that quote. Ain't it the truth. You get what you pay for. My ignorance led me down a dirty road!

 

[allan621]

I work for a very large jewelry store in the Mid-Atlantic states and deal with this pretty often. Like Monk said, this has been done with a diamond drag pantograph run by a computer. If the ring is silver, take it to the local jeweler and ask about taking the engraving off and polishing the ring. If the top of the signet is thin they may offer to remove the engraving but make you take customer risk; meaning that if the ring goes sideways the ring will be ruined and you still owe for the work that is done. This is a sign to get a new ring.

If there is no hesitation in offering to remove the engraving, have them do that and also have the ring polished. Then you ask if they have a hand engraver they use to reproduce the engraving or make it better. Its a bunch of snakes lassoed with another snake. On the bottom is whats called a torse or twisted scarf. Decent engravers usually cut it as a series of dots, not outlined but cut in. Now the price may be breathtaking since it might need postage in addition to a qualified hand. If the price is too much then ask about GOOD laser engraving. Good laser engraving may or may not cut deep but it should be able to make the cuts wider and blacken them in.

But before you go ahead with the work ask for a sketch first on ring from a hand engraver or a print out from the laser engraver so you can check the size and quality of the work. And make sure the snakes look like snakes. That will make the whole thing worthwhile.

Best of luck

Allan

 

[AO84]

That ring looks like it's cast silver which may likely not be work-hardened enough to engrave well (looks based on the porosity to perhaps be something that will cause the graver to bog and tear rather than cut smoothly). Laser seems a better idea as recommended by Allan

 

[8lackie]

That ring looks like it's cast silver which may likely not be work-hardened enough to engrave well (looks based on the porosity to perhaps be something that will cause the graver to bog and tear rather than cut smoothly). Laser seems a better idea as recommended by Allan

Thanks for the information AO, it is sterling, can this be cast as well so to not be work hardened? When I look at it with a loupe, it is quite coarse, as if perhaps the tool wasn't sharp. Also there is the problem (as I mentioned) the size is poorly scaled for the surface avail.

 

[AO84]

You would want it to be work hardened (or denser/more compacted metal grain) for sterling to engrave cleaner without the graver ripping and passing through Crumbly/gummy metal.

I believe GRS sells a die-struck sterling signet still. That would provide the dense, smooth qualities of sterling that make it better to hand engrave.

For a soft, cast piece that isn't hardened well, laser might be better.

It's understandable you don't have unlimited funds for a project such as this however...so it also has to make financial sense.

So, the solution here seems that either you take your current piece, file the face off assuming there is enough meat to do so, re-sand/Emory, repolish, and go to a different laser engrave shop (or jeweler) and ask if they can laser engrave your design in the same size as your provided photo.

 

[mtlctr]

I work for a very large jewelry store in the Mid-Atlantic states and deal with this pretty often. Like Monk said, this has been done with a diamond drag pantograph run by a computer. If the ring is silver, take it to the local jeweler and ask about taking the engraving off and polishing the ring. If the top of the signet is thin they may offer to remove the engraving but make you take customer risk; meaning that if the ring goes sideways the ring will be ruined and you still owe for the work that is done. This is a sign to get a new ring.

If there is no hesitation in offering to remove the engraving, have them do that and also have the ring polished. Then you ask if they have a hand engraver they use to reproduce the engraving or make it better. Its a bunch of snakes lassoed with another snake. On the bottom is whats called a torse or twisted scarf. Decent engravers usually cut it as a series of dots, not outlined but cut in. Now the price may be breathtaking since it might need postage in addition to a qualified hand. If the price is too much then ask about GOOD laser engraving. Good laser engraving may or may not cut deep but it should be able to make the cuts wider and blacken them in.

But before you go ahead with the work ask for a sketch first on ring from a hand engraver or a print out from the laser engraver so you can check the size and quality of the work. And make sure the snakes look like snakes. That will make the whole thing worthwhile.

Best of luck

Allan

That ring looks like it's cast silver which may likely not be work-hardened enough to engrave well (looks based on the porosity to perhaps be something that will cause the graver to bog and tear rather than cut smoothly). Laser seems a better idea as recommended by Allan

Doesn’t have to be work hardened to engrave or cut well. been engraving dead soft sterling for 20+ years.
if…the sterling scrap used to cast the the ring, as in Mexico, or inferior offshore Indian / Chinese was substandard with foreign inclusions then in which case it would be knarly to cut Perhaps.
in any case sterling is soft , work hardened or not and should cut easily with a sharp tool.
the design doesn’t look that complicated any competent engrave should be able to execute it.
then there is the matter of cost which I would guess lead the path to the laser route.

 

[8lackie]

Work hardened=annealed?

 

[AO84]

Work hardened=annealed?

Think opposite of annealed...

 

[mtlctr]

Work hardening happens when metal is worked by hammering, bending, etc.
heat red hot quench in water it’s annealed = softened( non-ferrous metals) .
steel heat red hot past magnetic quench in oil,(some Types crack in water) heat back slowly depending on use, have to know the colors. (Tempering)
or heat red hot & let air cool or shove in pile of ashes to anneal/soften.

 

[monk]

Thank you for your response. Do you mean the gold ring above, re: diamond drag? The gold ring is from c1973. The silver ring is sterling.

i meant the one in the lower foto.

 

[Marcus Hunt]

I recently engraved a ring for a friend. It was an 18th birthday present for her son and geez that wasn’t easy. The engraving was simple but managing customer expectations was awful. What she wanted vs the size of the ring and what was actually possible to avoid disappointment was a nightmare. The pinkie ring was gold and had had the previous engraving removed so if there is any depth to the face of your ring, especially as it’s been diamond dragged, it should be salvageable.

The ring I engraved was very small and she wanted a complete coat of arms. I explained that although technically just about doable every element would be virtually invisible to the naked eye. Eventually, after lots and lots of correspondence, her son decided on the crest he wanted. Even this wasn’t simple as the original hound (talbot) had been debased by a previous engraver who didn’t know what they were looking at so it had developed hooves! Had the ring been just a couple of mm larger we may have been able to get it more like here grand father’s original ring (which actually isn’t up to my standards but it goes to show what some customers will acceptable). On the painting of the family arms, even the artist put the crest facing backwards on the helm, duh! He knew the dog should not have hooves but he kept the position which makes it look like it’s begging. In all my books and research I’ve never seen legs like that so I adjusted them back to somewhere near where they should be.

So, in conclusion you a) need to find a decent hand engraver (these are not all equal; there are good and bad ones so do your due diligence), and b) one that has half an idea about heraldry. Although the shield doesn’t look heraldic as such, the engraver will understand how to lay it out on your ring.

These photos show the original family pieces and what we eventually decided on. This goes to show how you need to be able to communicate with your engraver. After god knows how many hours of emailing, I eventually managed to persuade her and her son into something which turned out great and which they love rather than trying to manage their disappointment because I’d blindly followed their original instructions.

 

[joshua_g]

Work hardening happens when metal is worked by hammering, bending, etc.
heat red hot quench in water it’s annealed = softened( non-ferrous metals) .
steel heat red hot past magnetic quench in oil,(some Types crack in water) heat back slowly depending on use, have to know the colors. (Tempering)
or heat red hot & let air cool or shove in pile of ashes to anneal/soften.

I've tried Monport Laser and can confirm its excellent quality and ease of use – definitely a recommendation! https://monportlaser.com?sca_ref=5031521.ka374VZjm3