Sharpening advice for beginner

[SEKernan]

I am just starting to learn about push hand engraving, what tools I need to set up, what fits within my budget, etc. I am trying my best to source tools as budget friendly as possible, I am hesitant to drop a lot of money on a professional set up until I get a better feel for the craft / if my store would be interested in helping with the cost down the line (If I prove good work). My starting goal is to work on practice plates, move onto simple jewelry engraving (no stone setting), and then far down the line to gun engraving.

The GRS YouTube channel, Sam's channel, Master Engraver TV, Caleb Kraft, and this cafe has been super helpful.

I am planning to purchase the GRS C-Max Graver and Handle Kit as my first graver (I liked the simple set up for my first, though was considering ordering pieces off of Stuller instead), I have copper plates, there is a engraving ball at my store they will let me use, and I was going to purchase a magnifying visor off of amazon since microscope set ups are out of the question right now. My only hang up and what I cannot figure out on my own is the best process or tool I can purchase for sharpening. I have looked at the Lindsey Universal Sharpening Fixture, but is there an even more price friendly option? $100 for one piece just makes me pause, but I know I can't be stingy forever.

Any advice on sharpening or of my purchase plans would be very appreciated!

 

[monk]

welcome to the forum. there are many videos on youtube that show how sharpening on a budget can be done. sam alfano, the forum lanmdlord sells an xcellent dvd on sharpening. quality engraving has been done for a few hundred years without a "sharpening system". it is still done this very day without such a toy. however, a "system" will insure good, consistent angles every time. esp for push work, for a newbie, i'd advise getting a system that allows any angle to be sharpened.
the template system works well but requires a separate template for each geometry wanted. this can prove to be rather expensive over time. as you progress, you will want to xperiment with several geometries, this allows for more complete control for a variety of work that will come your way. good luck to you. lest i forget, you should also develop drawing & design skills. good design is the begining of good engraving.

 

[SEKernan]

welcome to the forum. there are many videos on youtube that show how sharpening on a budget can be done. sam alfano, the forum lanmdlord sells an xcellent dvd on sharpening. quality engraving has been done for a few hundred years without a "sharpening system". it is still done this very day without such a toy. however, a "system" will insure good, consistent angles every time. esp for push work, for a newbie, i'd advise getting a system that allows any angle to be sharpened.
the template system works well but requires a separate template for each geometry wanted. this can prove to be rather expensive over time. as you progress, you will want to xperiment with several geometries, this allows for more complete control for a variety of work that will come your way. good luck to you. lest i forget, you should also develop drawing & design skills. good design is the begining of good engraving.

 

[SEKernan]

I appreciate the nudge to not be glued to the templates, I had watched some videos on people sharpening free handed but didn't know if that was the "smart" way to start. Don't know if that's what I'll end up doing, but good to know not to be afraid of it.



I have been practicing in a book recording definitions and scroll types with just pen before buying any tools. Currently filling pages of just straight + curved consistent spaced lines at the moment as you all make even that look easy. Thankyou for your insight!

 

[mtlctr]

Welcome, learn to sharpen by hand. Lots of utubes free demonstrate the technique. a 45 deg. Face / 15 deg. Heel will do what you want. If the graver runs straight after sharpening You can proceed. Optical exact flats are not need for good engraving. At your beginning stage different geometry is not needed or necessary imho. Cache box I made & engraved w/ hand sharpened tool.
kent

 

[ByrnBucks]

Welcome SEKernan, not that I had the normal experience but you seem to have a similar mindset of not committing too much into equipment until a certain amount of progress has been made.

This made each step feel earned and maybe more appreciative of each new toy. Only downside to speak of is that almost every “cheaper alternative“ purchased resulted in replacement later down the road.

Sharpening templates and hand stones got boxed up.
Pottery banding wheel and cheap knock off ball vise put on a shelf. Imitation pneumatic hand piece and control given away.

This is an amazing art form and you will not regret any time spent pursuing it. Hope this helps and have a great time learning. BB

 

[SEKernan]

I understand what you're saying, you hit the nail on the head that I would feel "earned" to move up to better tools. This is exactly why I haven't quite pulled the trigger and purchased anything *quite* yet, I want items that would stay in my toolbox for years - not just a cheap substitute all the time. Can I ask what you retired the templates and hand stones for instead?

 

[SEKernan]

Welcome, learn to sharpen by hand. Lots of utubes free demonstrate the technique. a 45 deg. Face / 15 deg. Heel will do what you want. If the graver runs straight after sharpening You can proceed.

That is lovely! Was this all done with 1 graver with the face/heel as you described?

 

[mtlctr]

I appreciate the nudge to not be glued to the templates, I had watched some videos on people sharpening free handed but didn't know if that was the "smart" way to start. Don't know if that's what I'll end up doing, but good to know not to be afraid of it.



I have been practicing in a book recording definitions and scroll types with just pen before buying any tools. Currently filling pages of just straight + curved consistent spaced lines at the moment as you all make even that look easy. Thankyou for your insight!

in the end your ability to control the graver will be the test however it was sharpened. Good luck.
kent

 

[mtlctr]

That is lovely! Was this all done with 1 graver with the face/heel as you described?

Yep, I still sharpen by hand, it was cut h& c

 

[ByrnBucks]

I understand what you're saying, you hit the nail on the head that I would feel "earned" to move up to better tools. This is exactly why I haven't quite pulled the trigger and purchased anything *quite* yet, I want items that would stay in my toolbox for years - not just a cheap substitute all the time. Can I ask what you retired the templates and hand stones for instead?

Certainly, The GRS GraverHone Apex Sharping system. But I will add that it was a later “earned” Item If you stick to softer metals like copper or brass then one sharpened graver will last a very long time.
What finally pushed me to get the hone was I got a few stainless steel jobs that were time sensitive and after snapping a few tips due to inexperienced led to panic sharpening followed immediately by another broken tip rinse and repeat.
After securing repeat jobs of the same nature the practically of the hand stone were no longer viable.
Given the opportunity to go back and alter my beginnings path I don’t believe I would done it differently.
Have a good one. BB

 

[alwayslearning2012]

Hey SEKernan. I'm just kinda starting out myself. I might purchase the graverhone system from GRS down the road, But right know I seem to be getting by with some C max 1.8 mm blanks from GRS, a 3 pc. diamond sharpening set from amazon (300, 600, 1200 Ultrasharp brand), a surface plate from Harbor Freight, and some 1500, 3000 grit wet/dry sand paper from Home Depot, or Lowe's to finish (and get the black or dark grey. Don't let that purple stuff fool ya. Look for 3M if they have it) . And most hobby/model stores sell finer grit abrasive pads depending on how far you want to go with polishing.

But most important, I think, is the Apex sharpening system from GRS. The Apex system will give you consistent geometry. With out a GraverHone system, your in for the really long and time consuming hand-sharpening. It WILL take some time to shape a blank into something usable, as others may tell you. But in the end , I think, you will feel it was worth the effort. And I only use water when I sharpen. I think it makes for easier clean-up and it dries. Oil does not.

Welcome to the Journey.

 

[AllenClapp]

If you do not have one, I recommend that you invest in a loupe with at least 10 power. They are not expensive and they help you to clearly see the cutting edges and surfaces on your graver to check symmetry and make sure that all of any chipped edge has been removed. You mentioned using a magnifying visor instead of a microscope. I started by using an Optivisor and, although I now use a microscope for almost all cutting, I keep two Optivisors of different power hanging from my scope mount for instant availability for measuring, drawing, and general inspection. You may find that some curved items are easier to engrave with an Optivisor than with a microscope because it can be easier to keept he work in focus as you cut around it. You may find as I did that you prefer to have more than one set of lenses available. They are available with sets of lenses, but you may get tired of switching the lens plates and want a second band. There are similar systems available. Be careful about the band system. Some are not as comfortable as others.

 

[alwayslearning2012]

Hey SEKernan. I'm just kinda starting out myself. I might purchase the graverhone system from GRS down the road, But right know I seem to be getting by with some C max 1.8 mm blanks from GRS, a 3 pc. diamond sharpening set from amazon (300, 600, 1200 Ultrasharp brand), a surface plate from Harbor Freight, and some 1500, 3000 grit wet/dry sand paper from Home Depot, or Lowe's to finish (and get the black or dark grey. Don't let that purple stuff fool ya. Look for 3M if they have it) . And most hobby/model stores sell finer grit abrasive pads depending on how far you want to go with polishing.

But most important, I think, is the Apex sharpening system from GRS. The Apex system will give you consistent geometry. With out a GraverHone system, your in for the really long and time consuming hand-sharpening. It WILL take some time to shape a blank into something usable, as others may tell you. But in the end , I think, you will feel it was worth the effort. And I only use water when I sharpen. I think it makes for easier clean-up and it dries. Oil does not.

Welcome to the Journey.

This is on update to my response from January. I've made some changes to my sharpening technique. I still use the diamond plates with the surface plate. A small bit of water between the 2, make it stick the the surface and it won't move, if it's done right.

I got rid of the sandpaper. For some reason, I found it tends to curve the edges of the face and the heel.
I inspect the edges under the scope. The cutting edge looked rounded. It still cut, but rough. which made my lines look horrible. (at least in my eyes). When I would get the graver finished with 1200 diamond plate the cutting edge looked chipped.

It took a while to figure out what might be happening. So I created a new process. (it ,of course, takes a bit longer,) but I'm happy now, and I like the way the cuts look. It requires me to repeat the sharpening process
several times. The heel is the last thing I do. 1-2 passes for the shape, 1-2 passes for the face.

So shape, face, shape, face and lightly until the chipping is gone and the cutting edge has no flaws.

Then I repeat this with the heel and face. I'm heeling at 20 degrees post angle instead of 15. The slow going, to me is worth the effort. Because the cuts look really good. (at least to me) So. Now that I figured out this : "How to Engrave-101a" lesson, I can finally move on to practice plates, and work on my penmanship. and eventually
backbones. Ken Hunt videos will come in handy learning how to find my own style.

Thanks for reading.

AL12