Critique Request Spyderco Delica with english scroll

[ddushane]

I've been going back over what Mitch & Marcus said and studying your engraving and Mitch's and am starting to understand what they're saying, just takes me a little longer than most, my head's a little too thick sometimes I wish there was a close up of the picture Marcus posted so I could study it. I'm not finding a great deal of images to study on the net of English or small scroll. I really do want to do it the correct way. I don't want to put something on a knife or gun that would cause those that know what
they are looking at to cringe.

Dwayne

 

[Mario Sarto]

I found some great pictures:
Rex Pedersen
David Drake
Marcus Hunt
and another one from Marcus Hunt
A lot to study for us
Regards, Mario.

 

[ARM]

Very nice work MARIO.
Just our 2 cents worth.........Ty is right about the borders.
Did my first Knife also without borders and a couple with thereafter.
The difference is noticeable immediately when the image is framed.
Will post my pics on the week end and U can gauge for Yourself.
Your work is exceptional.
Keep posting.
aRM

 

[Mario Sarto]

Here is my latest. The differences to the old layout are:

- setting up the flowers a little bit - now they are optical in the middle
- a better flow, especially on the left side
- the scrolls are slightly rounder
- smaller scrolls have a smaller center​

and a smaller view

If you like to see the development of the layout, i have added a picture of my steps (first above, latest down).

Because i don't want to make it too different (each side), at this time no border.

Please let me know, what you think about it.
Regards, Mario.

 

[John B.]

Hi Mario,
The left side of the new layout has many more small scrolls than the right side.
When the internals are cut the left side will look a lot darker than the right.
You could could easily bring the design into better balance with a little change at either end.
Just my thinking. Very clean drawing and a great post.
Best regards,

 

[Marcus Hunt]

I agree with you John, with the old layout a couple of adjustments could be made to correct the lefthand part of the design and give slightly fewer scrolls. Design is always a bit of a problem when it's asymmetric like this. Your designs are coming on nicely though Mario.

 

[Mario Sarto]

John, thank you. I didn't take care of that.
I made a new one with fewer scrolls, based on the old layout, what Marcus suggested.

Regards, Mario.

 

[Arnaud Van Tilburgh]

Interesting tread on the English scroll design you started Mario. As I'm standing on the sideline now, I notice that is also a good way to learn a lot by the struggling of someone else like you. :big grin:

I never thought that much about English scroll design, as this style didn't please me the most compared to other styles, but now it becomes more interesting to me. I have searched in Ron Smith's book, but did not found the answers as there is less information about English scroll design in it.

I now have noticed that this style is more complicated than I first thought when looking at it. I suppose so do you.

I'm very curious how this will proceed reading the comments of John and Marcus.

Keep going Mario,
arnaud

 

[Mario Sarto]

I think, one of my biggest problems is, i never had hold a piece of art like shown here or elsewhere in my hands. Engraving, the Art of engraving never was an issue where i live. As you know, primarily i wanted to enhance my skills with a graver to get better stone-setting results. Serendipitously this goes into another direction and i am quit happy about. Like you i am willing to learn. But the time we could spend on it, is unfortunately limited. At the end i try to catch time for it where i can find it - i believe like many others did and still do.

If everything fits, i will take some classes sooner or later. Till then i am struggle around at its best.

By the way, the side i already engraved, it feels good when be touched by finger and it looks good in hand. All i can say, give it a try, Arnaud.

Regards, Mario.

 

[Arnaud Van Tilburgh]

Mario, yes I understand all about time.
And as I'm getting older and having a working career of more that 40 years, I'm trying to find out a way to do more things I like, even when it means less income.
Sure I still enjoy my goldsmith work, but since I started engraving, that is something else I enjoy en would like to spend more time on that.
It is also the race against time when goldsmitting, that becomes harder to enjoy, and in a way even when charging a higher price/our, at the end when all bills are paid, there is not that much left.

So perhaps one of these days I will close my shop and start a working place at home, shut down all the administration and just do some work for fewer clients and more engraving collections I like, and I'm quite sure at the end of the month there could be more left.

Sure this has noting to do with your English scrolls, it is just a reaction about the time left to engrave you mentioned.
I have the feeling that engraving eliminates the aspect time.

arnaud

 

[Marcus Hunt]

That looks great Mario.

Now, when you come to fill the scrolls remember to keep the inside work of a similar size for both the larger and smaller scrolls, e.g. if it takes 8 leaves and tendrils to fill one of the larger scrolls it might only take 2 to fill one of the smaller ones. Of course the inside work will vary in size between the scrolls but try to keep an overall proportionality running through the design. Can't wait to see your results.

Arnaud, hopefully it won't be too long now that my book describing how to cut English Fine scroll is ready. As far as I know it's at the printing stage now.

 

[Mario Sarto]

Thank you for the time you spend on this!

...book describing how to cut English Fine scroll is ready. As far as I know it's at the printing stage now.

I 've made a subscription for it three month ago by Mr. Hagedorn
Can't wait...

 

[Arnaud Van Tilburgh]

Arnaud, hopefully it won't be too long now that my book describing how to cut English Fine scroll is ready. As far as I know it's at the printing stage now.

Sounds great Marcus, didn't know you were working on a book. I'm looking forward to it. My son is living in Guildford, so perhaps this will be easier to order in the UK.

Mario, I think you are doing well as Marcus confirmed that, I'm looking forward to see the result. As far as I understand from English scrolls, as there is no really a background, it are the leaves inside the scrolls that make tone balance.
Do the leaves also need to be shaded? I suppose not.

regards, arnaud

 

[Christian DeCamillis]

Marcus, Can't wait for your dvd's and book. I learned a great deal from your father and yourself about english scroll, when I took His GM class. One of the most informative classes I was ever in. Your Father is a pioneer in the world of engraving and one of the most anxious to share his skills. It's obvious in the work you do you had a great teacher. Keep the critiques coming when asked for they are great learning tool for all of us.

Mitch I like your english scroll style very much beautifull stuff as with all of your engraving. Chris

 

[John B.]

Mario,
The latest post looks much better.
Go for it.

And Arnaud, you are right. Small English scroll looks deceptively simple.
But mistakes can show up big time.

Best.

 

[Mario Sarto]

Mario,
The latest post looks much better.
Go for it.

On the way, John! Thank you.
Regards, Mario.

 

[John B.]

Good deal so far, Mario.
And I was very pleased to see you re-position the center flowers.
Friend Marcus gave you great advise on the internals.
That guy knows a thing or two about small English.
I sure am looking forward to his book and tapes.
Will enjoy seeing your little finished knife.
Is it going to be passed on to the little Prince one day?
Best always.

 

[vilts]

This thread has been most useful. Thanks Mario for posting your excellent work and all the constructive people who commented it. It's nice when you can learn from other mistakes

 

[Marrinan]

Vilts's comment is spot on thanks to all. Really looking forward to Marcus's book myself-Fred (I think there might be some English or Welsh in the blood somewhere, One of my favorite understated styles)

 

[Mario Sarto]

The work of the evening...
... my bedtime story.