Superb quality signet ring design with Zbrush

[sam]

Marcus: No worries my friend! I knew this would be controversial when I started it!

What I was referring to as for reusable elements, were things like shields, helmets, banners, lions, and the like. Many of the same elements are used on different crests as you know. Of course some are different and should be drawn or engraved as such, but many are the same. So if you're doing this in CAD, elements that are the same only need drawing once.

As for the mantling morphing into scrollwork, I'm guilty as charged, and have had many customers request that I do something different than what their crest depicts.

Here in America heraldry not taken as seriously as in the UK. Many customers pay $9.99 for a coat of arms look-up, and a company supplies them with a printout and makes them feel like royalty. Of course it's a shame because of its great history of symbolism, but that simply doesn't mean much to us American knuckleheads! And a jewelry store isn't interested in any of this. They simply want to provide a service that makes a customer happy. They don't care about mantles or whether it's the right helmet or whether the eagle claws belong there or not. But they do want an excellent finished product. It's the customer's job to be fussy about those details, and once they're provided the store does the rest.

Do you know of Dexter Seal Engraving in Kent? They have produced some amazing hand engraved seal rings, but now it looks like they've gone the way of CAD. They might still have hand engravers, but they're also using CAD and some of what I've seen. Check them out.

"Life rings" are great, and much more interesting when it has symbolism that pertains to a family or individual. Mine might have a banjo and a graver

 

[sam]

Several years ago I found a GIANT book on heraldry and spent months studying and trying to absorb everything I could about it.

Mine's not a giant book, but it's quite good.

 

[Big-Un]

Yes Mike, its a fascinating subject. I wonder how many know the significance of the facing of the helmet? For a hint, the way the helmet is facing is the indication of the royal order of status. EVERY part of the coat-of-arms is significant and it could be easily (well, somewhat easily in battle) distinguished on the battlefield or during peacetime pageantry.

Sam, I'll try and post a picture of my book. I found it at a little shop in Linville, North Carolina where annual Scottish Highland games are held on Grandfather Mountain. The games are HUGE and I've never seen so many kilts in my life, and the tartans are all authentic to the families.

 

[RDP]

In case anybody is interested in finding more about heraldry, I found this to download free on the internet archive site,

https://archive.org/details/bub_gb_RuMhtCs54HgC

Richard.

 

[Marcus Hunt]

Sam, re the mantling, I think what I was try to say is over the centuries the mantle has gone from being a piece of cloth (in some European coats of arms it is still depicted as one piece and looks weird) to the tatters becoming stylised and twisting and tuning until, in some cases, they look almost like scrollwork. But for it to start morphing into claws is very strange and not something I've seen before.

I know what you mean by the commercial aspects but I do find that quite sad and if you're not entitled in some way through family lineage to a coat of arms then it's all a bit phoney. But as I said, if someone wants a signet, rather than some phoney crest, why not encourage them to have something really personal that they can identify with on the ring instead? That way we can all have something personal rather than just the privileged few.

 

[Brian Marshall]

Off subject... Marcus, maybe you've not looked - but you have about 20 guys over in the Buy/Sell section panting for some kind of relief from anxiety and wanting to get some copies of your English Scroll materials back into circulation... if you told someone you needed 30 copies guaranteed sold to do that - I think you are close?

If you reply on that thread - I'm sure the gap will be filled...


Brian

 

[Andrew Biggs]

I agree with Marcus’ sentiments about traditions etc.

We need to preserve as much as possible and keep traditions and lore of things like heraldry and the like. We have institutions that are the keepers of the gate with this sort of thing like the College Of Arms http://www.college-of-arms.gov.uk

The reality is that ninety nine percent of the population have absolutely no heraldic devises in their family history.

Just because their great, great ,great, great, great grandfather on their mothers cousin side of the family fought in the Battle of Hastings doesn’t mean a thing. They were more than likely a peasant armed with a bow or pike. In other words, cannon fodder.

However, when you type in your name on the internet a family crest of some description will show up. It looks great and has a feel good factor to it but is as historically correct as a can of baked beans. These are generic layouts and clip art that are a mish-mash of original design combined with modern and are totally meaningless in their history and lore.

So when someone asks us to engrave a ring with a coat of arms….we engrave what they give us. Our job is to make it look good and get certain thing correct like colours etc etc. After all, we are in business to make money, pay the bills etc.

With that all in mind I sometimes ask if they want the design improved with better leaves, helmet etc etc……and the answer is almost always, yes. That tells you that it is a download from the internet.

Anyone that truly is entitled to a heraldic devise in their family history will be well aware of its significance, terminology and lore. And they would be horrified at the idea of changing anything.

So it all boils down to different markets with different price structures. There will always be room for the bespoke engraver, jeweller and craftsman………..and sometimes it’s the mass market that can drive work our way.

I do like the idea of a lifestyle ring as Marcus talked about………..a great idea and one worth pursuing.

Cheers
Andrew