Help, please: Trying to Find Traditional, Long Term Educational Opportunity

[mtlctr]

scroll lines need to be concentric. and one smooth flowing line. avoid the "sketchy" look , ie. , shaggy.
and.........what Roger said is everything in a nutshell.

 

[ElementalBreakdown]

I disagree with a lot of this. I was the worst one at lettering in my "mechanical drawing" class, which you probably don't know about if you a under 45.my high school teacher sat down for a week and guided my work on each letter. I can still print on blueprints like an architect or engineer.
Some of us need an expert standing over us actually TEACHING us. Sadly, it does not seem the engraving community has enough cohesion to create great schools that can be reached by all students in this big country.
If you do not teach, you are not fulfilling your duties as an artisan. I practice what I preach. I don't know why jewelers and other highly skilled artisans have forgotten this.
Even 12 step programs know this is the only enduring way to pass on the most important things. No jeweler will accept an apprentice, no carver is advertising in any way.

We are out here:reach us. The world is ready to accept inferior machine made engraving. If my heart and soul were in this business for years, that'd be a call to action.
No one is listening.

 

[mtlctr]

Lots of classes / schools out there at every level to participate in. It’s up to you to choose your path.
you paint your own picture.

 

[ElementalBreakdown]

There are not "lots of classes" out there. Remote learning is garbage, I am a professional teacher of over 20 years, you kids *think* easier =better, but even in simple subjects in person instruction is exponentially better, and in my area I have never seen a class advertised. I have a family, I can't pick up and go to Belgium for a few years anymore.

 

[mtlctr]

Well, EB, I learned by remote & books cuz that’s all there was. It wasn’t easy, I was a factory worker with Mrs. & 2 kids, she didn’t work .
20 yrs huh? I had that much my first job before the business closed. I’ve been to the school of hard knock & I didn’t sign up for it.
i‘m also not a kid, at my age I suspect you would be a kid to me & kinda sound like one. In case you ain’t figured it out hand engravers aren’t dime a dozen. If you want hands on you go to them.
you might wanna tone down your gas too & have some respect for the folks here with untold hrs. Of experience.

 

[ElementalBreakdown]

If you read a few of the posts on this thread before commenting, you might understand why your comment was frustrating. Too many people just want to drop a comment without reading context first, it's not helpful. There are no people or programs within hours or days of me. I specifically said I can't learn just by watching, I can monkey see monkey do, but in many other art endeavors, that creates hard to unlearn bad muscle memory.

 

[mtlctr]

I read all of them. what youre looking for doesnt exist in this art form.
Btw, IF u could find someone to look over your shoulder do you have the necessary equipment?

 

[oniemarc]

If you read a few of the posts on this thread before commenting, you might understand why your comment was frustrating. Too many people just want to drop a comment without reading context first, it's not helpful. There are no people or programs within hours or days of me. I specifically said I can't learn just by watching, I can monkey see monkey do, but in many other art endeavors, that creates hard to unlearn bad muscle memory.

NJ is New Jersey right? As in...right next to New York?

Since I am dutch, you will have to forgive me not knowing for sure, but...

A quick google search shows me courses in Clifton, NJ at the Jewelers Institute. Not sure what they offer or when, but...like I said, a quick search.

Marc

 

[oniemarc]

Also...I am a curious person by nature, so I was wondering, how much time are you willing to invest in the type of schooling you seek? A day, a week...maybe months? I am asking because, most engravers willing to teach in person, 1 on 1, will charge a daily fee. It could become very expensive, very quickly.

 

[ElementalBreakdown]

The jewelry Institute in Clifton is just a Facebook page maintained by someone that lives in Clifton. They don't list any contact info for classes or anything . I checked all over around here.
How do I answer "how much time are you willing to invest...." with no experience? I am looking to do this properly which means finding a COMPETENT teacher and curriculum and then treating it like any other vicational pursuit.

No, I haven't purchased any expensive equipment, that's a huge mistake, I have a ton of gear that I could use like the high quality rotary tools and bits and vices, but again you should not develop bad habits and I don't know how else to say this ir emphasize that my life experience has taught me both as student and teacher that you should not aporoach a complicated thing like this armed with internet and dvd based training.

 

[mtlctr]

Don’t use rotary tools ( burrs,cutters,reamers) for engraving metal.https://www.engravingclasses.com/

 

[ElementalBreakdown]

There's tens of thousands of videos of people that have used rotary tools to engrave incredible designs and I dislike the idea for all the reasons I have already mentioned.

I'm trying to do things right, I am sorry if looking for a mentor and being patient until I can find the proper way to begin doesn't fit with how many of you have approached this. I'm not criticizing your approach, but I know what works for me.
Please feel free to suggest a way to find a mentor but I am not interested in doing this any other way.

 

[John B.]

I disagree with a lot of this. I was the worst one at lettering in my "mechanical drawing" class, which you probably don't know about if you a under 45.my high school teacher sat down for a week and guided my work on each letter. I can still print on blueprints like an architect or engineer.
Some of us need an expert standing over us actually TEACHING us. Sadly, it does not seem the engraving community has enough cohesion to create great schools that can be reached by all students in this big country.
If you do not teach, you are not fulfilling your duties as an artisan. I practice what I preach. I don't know why jewelers and other highly skilled artisans have forgotten this.
Even 12 step programs know this is the only enduring way to pass on the most important things. No jeweler will accept an apprentice, no carver is advertising in any way.

We are out here:reach us. The world is ready to accept inferior machine made engraving. If my heart and soul were in this business for years, that'd be a call to action.
No one is listening.

And Yes they/ we have listened.
You need to do a little more searching and accommodate yourself to what is available.
They do have the schools available.
You need to ask for the information, apply and make the effort to attend.

You wrote "We are out here: reach us"
Please first remember the world does not need another engraver.
It's you who want to become a valued engraver.

Yes, your High School teacher could sit down and teach you letters for a week, one-on-one.
He/she had an annual salary and a follow up pension to take care of them.
Most engravers have to earn a livelihood by working at their bench for these many hours.

And Yes they/ we have listened.
You need to do a little more searching and accommodate yourself to what is available.
They do have the schools available.
You need to ask for the information, apply and make the effort to attend.

Schools for instance, the National Rifle Association holds 2 week classes during the Summer vacation time each year. The NRA classes are taught by experienced engraving instructors.
They are held at several colleges dispersed around the country.
These classes are scheduled during the typical summer vacation time to help those people still employed.
That time-frame is also when college space, dorm rooms and cafeteria space are available.
These classes have reasonable fees, and usually also provide a place to both stay and to eat.

I taught these classes for 25 plus years, and had the honor of teaching over 600 engravers.
Have retired from formal instruction, just a couple of local friend/student now.
But many of the NRA classes are now taught by my former students.
Proud to say, these students have gone on to become fine teachers, most are rated as Master Engravers.

NRA, that is just one more teaching venue.
As you already know there is also excellent instruction available at several commercial schools in the USA.

 

[allan621]

And Yes they/ we have listened.
You need to do a little more searching and accommodate yourself to what is available.
They do have the schools available.
You need to ask for the information, apply and make the effort to a
You wrote "We are out here: reach us"
Please first remember the world does not need another engraver.
It's you who want to become a valued engraver.

Yes, your High School teacher could sit down and teach you letters for a week, one-on-one.
He/she had an annual salary and a follow up pension to take care of them.
Most engravers have to earn a livelihood by working at their bench for these many hours.

And Yes they/ we have listened.
You need to do a little more searching and accommodate yourself to what is available.
They do have the schools available.
You need to ask for the information, apply and make the effort to attend.

Schools for instance, the National Rifle Association holds 2 week classes during the Summer vacation time each year. The NRA classes are taught by experienced engraving instructors.
They are held at several colleges dispersed around the country.
These classes are scheduled during the typical summer vacation time to help those people still employed.
That time-frame is also when college space, dorm rooms and cafeteria space are available.
These classes have reasonable fees, and usually also provide a place to both stay and to eat.

I taught these classes for 25 plus years, and had the honor of teaching over 600 engravers.
Have retired from formal instruction, just a couple of local friend/student now.
But many of the NRA classes are now taught by my former students.
Proud to say, these students have gone on to become fine teachers, most are rated as Master Engravers.

NRA, that is just one more teaching venue.
As you already know there is also excellent instruction available at several commercial schools in the USA.

 

[allan621]

John, you rock!!

 

[ElementalBreakdown]

I exhausted these options. Once you have called and checked the websites of the local community and public schools, asked the NRA (I am a life member), and done my best to Google both famous engravers and jewelry schools, I am confident in telling you that no, these classes you mention are in fact not available anywhere near me.
God bless all of you who could do this 30+ years ago when you had a one earner household and/or a wife that was able to devote entirely to domestic affairs so you could skip off across the country for a few weeks to teach or learn.
And at least part of "why the world doesn't need another engraver" is because the classes you mention have been replaced by classes in CAD, CNC design, and "how to use a laser burner". I knew of the existence of this forum for a looooong time before I signed up, this hasn't been a week long search. Years my friend. This was my last effort, not my first.

 

[oniemarc]

The jewelry Institute in Clifton is just a Facebook page maintained by someone that lives in Clifton. They don't list any contact info for classes or anything . I checked all over around here.
How do I answer "how much time are you willing to invest...." with no experience? I am looking to do this properly which means finding a COMPETENT teacher and curriculum and then treating it like any other vicational pursuit.

No, I haven't purchased any expensive equipment, that's a huge mistake, I have a ton of gear that I could use like the high quality rotary tools and bits and vices, but again you should not develop bad habits and I don't know how else to say this ir emphasize that my life experience has taught me both as student and teacher that you should not aporoach a complicated thing like this armed with internet and dvd based training.

I asked because if you are willing to shell out a couple thousand for a week or 2 , why is it so hard to travel for a week and seek help at GRS for instance. They may not have actual 1on1 classes, but...you can experience the feel of engraving, whilst still learning heaps. Truthfully, you would be a fool(not saying you are 1 obviously) thinking you would learn all you need to learn in 1 or 2 classes. Whatever route you would choose still ends up doing practice hours on your own.
You said it yourself, you have no actual hands on experience, which could mean that engraving is just not for you. Beginner classes are there for a reason, to get a taste and learn.

I will give a piece of advice, regardless of which route you end up taking. Try to refrain from coming across as if anyone owes you anything. It may not be the way you feel, but trust me, it looks that way from the outside looking in. If the people you NEED to help/guide/teach you, see it that way, you will never find anyone willing to teach you anything. Not in this profession or any other. I am merely a beginner who tries his best to learn...that is exactly what you are too...but with even less knowledge. Respect to those willing to teach, will get you much further.

Don't take it the wrong way...But pretty much everyone on this forum has been trying to earn their stripes or have done so already. JohnB is a frigging legend and I have never seen him other than respectful and motivating towards beginners. Within this thread I have seen his demeanor change...think hard what the reason behind that could be

 

[ElementalBreakdown]

I don't think anyone owes me anything and I appreciate your clarification that the ONLY way I may be able to try to get into this is by traveling ACROSS THE COUNTRY for several weeks a year.
You made that simple.
A lot of the "experts" were condescending as if I asked for anything but advice IF THEY HAD IT.
If you don't have it, it's okay not to reply. Telling me about some classes that used to run in nineteen-dickety-doo and suggesting that because I am straightforward I'm being rude is misplaced pride.
If you asked me about any one of the things I am an expert in, I could immediately tell you where to get training, or that training is not publicly offered in your area.
In any case, I apologize if I didn't come off as friendly. I am friendly, I just don't want or need more friends. Came only for the specific information. Thanks for clarifying.

 

[mtlctr]

Jezt HaBen wer den salat.

 

[oniemarc]

I don't think anyone owes me anything and I appreciate your clarification that the ONLY way I may be able to try to get into this is by traveling ACROSS THE COUNTRY for several weeks a year.
You made that simple.
A lot of the "experts" were condescending as if I asked for anything but advice IF THEY HAD IT.
If you don't have it, it's okay not to reply. Telling me about some classes that used to run in nineteen-dickety-doo and suggesting that because I am straightforward I'm being rude is misplaced pride.
If you asked me about any one of the things I am an expert in, I could immediately tell you where to get training, or that training is not publicly offered in your area.
In any case, I apologize if I didn't come off as friendly. I am friendly, I just don't want or need more friends. Came only for the specific information. Thanks for clarifying.

Some things are understood differently when typing, yet the way you type anything is by choice. You could have easily explained you looked into those classes and that they were no longer available.
These people are atisans...a different breed so to speak. I come from tattooing and to me, this world of engraving is extremely open to anyone willing to learn. Most occupations with any craftmanship envolved are very secretive. The willingness to share information about this craft is unique. Yet, those who have the knowledge to share, will always be those that need to be treated with respect. Like I said...typing doesn't always come across the way it was intended. As a schoolteacher, I would think you would know that. Saying things as nineteen-dickety-doo comes across as being offended. These people give you what they know...they will not check for you if the classes are still being taught.

Like I said...I am in The Netherlands. No more schools here. The few that still engrave here offer mostly a fun day for bachelor parties and such. I would have loved to have been in your shoes, where in the US there are far more places to turn. Getting setup is wayyyyy cheaper there.... Soooo many advantages.

If all you can find is slightly or even way further than you would like, sadly, so be it. Even then I would trade places with you...today