Winchester 94
- Thread starter happy
- Start date
if it's taken down, you could try a small test cut on the inside where such will not matter. worth a try.
I seem to remember the post '64 Win 94s are difficult to reblue...
Bluing a Winchester is difficult after1964 put in hot bluing salts they will turn out purple that a gun you want to stay away from. J.J.
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Leland Davis
Elite Cafe Member
Rust blue works and they will color case harden the steel cuts nice. I have not tried charcoal blue but it should work just don't hot blue unless you want a purple gun.
I do make it clear to the customer that it is lip stick on a pig but it's their money.
I do make it clear to the customer that it is lip stick on a pig but it's their money.
Mike Bissell
Elite Cafe Member
If the serial # is between 2,700,000 and 5,024,957 you will need to use 1 of 3 different processes to get them black again. Years of manufacture are from 1964 till 1981, the receivers were cast. A brief history on the finishes can be found here https://du-lite.com/blackening-post-64-winchester-receivers/ After 1981 they can be reblued normally.
Here’s
the finish needs to be redone so I was going to get it case colored anyway and thought as long as I’m doing that I would engrave it so I’m really courteous how the receivers are for engraving
Here’s the story years ago someone gave me bandsaw shortly there after a friend of mine wanted it I said what do you have to trade that is how I got the 94 so it didn’t cost me anything
the finish needs to be redone so I was going to get it case colored anyway and thought as long as I’m doing that I would engrave it so I’m really courteous how the receivers are for engraving
Leland Davis
Elite Cafe Member
You won't have any trouble cutting your 94.
Mike Dubber
Elite Cafe Member
They can also be French grayed - this is the same vintage 94 described in your original inquiry. I engraved this one in 2005.
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Win_94_02.JPG
did You do the French gray your self or was it done by a gunsmith I really like the look of that gun and the engraving
Happy, It not hard after the gun parts are blued take fine steel wool and Lysol toilet bowl cleaner and scrub off the bluing then run under hot water last step scrub the parts with backing soda done. the formula was told to me by my old friend master engraver Marty Rabeno. J.J.
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Mike Dubber
Elite Cafe Member
I always finish with a light coat of clear lacquer. GRS has a product called Nikolas Lacquer. It's made specifically for brass instruments - dries hard and doesn't chip. the keyword here is a LIGHT COAT. I also apply several coats of Renaissance Wax to the entire gun.
The first thing to understand is that the gun parts could be blued conventionally (oxide or hot blue) - OR NOT - the photo example of the Engraved 94 Winchester was French grayed without being blued first.
In this case, I started with the bare metal (after engraving.) To gray and etch I prefer ZEP Acidic Toilet Bowl Cleaner (Lowes) to remove the blue if it is present - ZEP is a bit more aggressive than grocery store cleaners, and as a result, it leaves a slight Etch to the metal surface...so. if y;u are following, I use the ZEP to remove blue...and I use it to etch the metal as well. Once the action is acid "grayed" and I "kill" the action of the acid with a soda solution, then I rinse with hot water and dry - but I don't use steel wool because I don't want to reduce the light acid etch.
Finally, the engraving and all surrounding metal are darkened with inks. Because the ZEP imparts a very light etch to the metal surface the inks also slightly darken the entire metal surfaces. After that, the metal is lacquered and then waxed with Renaissance.
As cryptically described by JJ, this is not a particularly difficult process. Likewise, it does no good at all to tell anyone that it's easy. Any of these processes we describe are learned over years of experimentation and practice - and by reading/studying about it from several different sources. One of the best French Gray processes was one described many years ago by John Barraclough. John uses a DuPont automotive etchant - not to remove blue, but to etch the metal surface. The surface etch is critically important to a soft French gray process. I found that the ZEP is more easily accessible at Lowes and other places and I that didn't need to go to an automotive paint store for the etchant.
The first thing to understand is that the gun parts could be blued conventionally (oxide or hot blue) - OR NOT - the photo example of the Engraved 94 Winchester was French grayed without being blued first.
In this case, I started with the bare metal (after engraving.) To gray and etch I prefer ZEP Acidic Toilet Bowl Cleaner (Lowes) to remove the blue if it is present - ZEP is a bit more aggressive than grocery store cleaners, and as a result, it leaves a slight Etch to the metal surface...so. if y;u are following, I use the ZEP to remove blue...and I use it to etch the metal as well. Once the action is acid "grayed" and I "kill" the action of the acid with a soda solution, then I rinse with hot water and dry - but I don't use steel wool because I don't want to reduce the light acid etch.
Finally, the engraving and all surrounding metal are darkened with inks. Because the ZEP imparts a very light etch to the metal surface the inks also slightly darken the entire metal surfaces. After that, the metal is lacquered and then waxed with Renaissance.
As cryptically described by JJ, this is not a particularly difficult process. Likewise, it does no good at all to tell anyone that it's easy. Any of these processes we describe are learned over years of experimentation and practice - and by reading/studying about it from several different sources. One of the best French Gray processes was one described many years ago by John Barraclough. John uses a DuPont automotive etchant - not to remove blue, but to etch the metal surface. The surface etch is critically important to a soft French gray process. I found that the ZEP is more easily accessible at Lowes and other places and I that didn't need to go to an automotive paint store for the etchant.
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JMiller
Elite Cafe Member
Can this method be used if there are bulino scenes or would it mess with the finer details, if so could the scenes be protected with something like nail polish then removed with acetone?
Neo Dutch
Elite Cafe Member
- Joined
- Nov 9, 2006
- Messages
- 186
94 receivers have a lot of nickle in them. That is why they turn red.
Para Ordnance slides do the same. I blued a PO slide and then masked it up like Damascus, blasted it and blued again. The portions that went through twice were quite black.
Para Ordnance slides do the same. I blued a PO slide and then masked it up like Damascus, blasted it and blued again. The portions that went through twice were quite black.
I happened to see some of the ZEP toilet bowl cleaner that Mike Du mentioned at Tractor Supply. Unlike John B's solution which is phosphoric acid (as are most others used to gray metal) the Zep is hydrochloric acid, AKA muriatic acid. I suppose that muriatic acid could also be used if diluted. I recall years ago whilst restoring a 55 T-bird that I used it on various small parts to remove rust from pitted metal. It did leave a grayed surface but after-rusting occurred almost instantly after a water wash. I wasn't knowledgeable enough at the time to think of killing the acid with a basic rinse first. I have some parts that need to be French grayed and will experiment a bit with both the ZEP and muriatic diluted to varying degrees.
AllenClapp
Elite Cafe Member
Expressing my ignorance here: I understand that using a phosphoric acid solution is a weaker version of Parkerizing and that the phosphorous is a required ingredient. Does hydrochloric acid do the same, or does it just clean off rust well, without depositing a protective coating?
Phosphoric acid is the way to go.
I have guns that were French Grayed with it and sealed with acetone/varnish over 20 years ago.
And no rusting so far.
It's a little less protective than a good hot black oxide finish.
As Allen said, and depending on the strength of the acid solution, IMO it imparts a weaker version of Parkerizing.
I have guns that were French Grayed with it and sealed with acetone/varnish over 20 years ago.
And no rusting so far.
It's a little less protective than a good hot black oxide finish.
As Allen said, and depending on the strength of the acid solution, IMO it imparts a weaker version of Parkerizing.
AllenClapp
Elite Cafe Member
John, what is your sealant recipe?
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