wriggle cuts

[monk]

i'm quite comfortable doing wiggle cuts at a very steep wrist angle. what does a low wrist angle do to the appearance of the cut ? it seems as i would try to lower the wrist angle the danger of a slip increases markedly ! also there would appear to be less pressure to bear into the metal, and so a more shallow cut. help- confused .

 

[KSnyder]

Monk, when I wiggle cut I use a fairly steep angle as well, I tend to cut a wider wiggle if I lower the angle.
And yeah, the slip happens more a lower angle. When I use the lower angle I'm very careful of control.
My $.02
Kent

 

[monk]

thanx. but from what i know of the way i wiggle cut, i see only disadvantage by lowering my wrist. if i want wider, i grab a wider flat or round graver, and retain the high wrist angle.

 

[Robert W Waters]

Two kinds of Wiggle Cuts

There are "fast" and "slow" wiggle cuts. The "fast" wiggle are done with a 'high' wrist angle and the wiggles are close together. The 'fast' wiggle is also known as a 'fine' wiggle and can look a little messy on soft metals. The '"slow" wiggle is more coarse and uses a lower wrist angle. You see a trail of bright faceted cuts (quite beautiful). This is the common cut on Western Engraving done on soft metal.

 

[monk]

i see light at the end of the tunnel. i was advised to go to fega. i just ordered the western style engraving video! yes, life is good ! i think this tape will answer many questions i have about western style.
thank you .

 

[KSnyder]

yep, thats what I was tryin' to say!
Robert explained it perfectly.
Kent

 

[sam]

I've always called them wriggle cuts. Anyway, try wriggling (or wiggling) a 120 for an interesting effect.

 

[chris]

hi monk
i have dianes dvd she explains western magicaly well worth a couple of bucks plus she is a lovely lady to talk to any thing on bright cut shes the one
chris

 

[monk]

a 120 wiggle ! i think i'll have to go and make up a 120 graver and give that a try. sounds fascinating. thanx !
seems i learn something here every day, in keeping with the intended purpopse of the forum. thanks again.

 

[KSnyder]

Sam, I'm gonna try it, would have never entered my mind to use a 120!
thanks for the tip,
Kent

 

[cowboy_silversmith]

Hi Monk - I agree you can't use much pressure at a lower wrist angle for risk of slipping. I do all my wriggling using a high wrist angle. The type of affect I get with my wriggle tool depends on the angle I hold my wrist along with the rate at which I roll my wrist back and forth as well as the amount of pressure I apply during the wriggling procedure. I use a pretty blunt angle on the face of my liner gravers to perform the wriggle cut.
Sorry, I have never measured the angle...always done it by eye...so I attached the pictures of my trusty 10/8 wriggle tool. For a brighter effect when I wriggle the spines on my scrolls I use a #2 knife graver with a polished heel ("belly" as the old time cowboy, push by hand engravers would say).

Best regards,
Greg Pauline

 

[JBrandvik]

Here's a couple of things I have recently learned about wriggle cutting...

I recently finished another knife for my wife with some wriggle cutting. (Her knife collection is beginning to rival my tool collection) Before I undertook cutting on this rather fancy Damascus folder, I practiced wriggle cutting on several practice plates with marginal success. The main problem I had was in trying to accurately control direction as I progressed around the border of the practice plates. I kept wandering too close or too far from the edge of the plates.

Finally, I flipped the #40 flat I was using over 180 degrees so that the heal/belly/bottom of the flat became the leading edge and the improvement was remarkable. By looking at the stark, flat bottom of the graver, I found that I could control the direction much better.

Another tip which worked for me was to slow way down. I have never actually seen anyone wriggle cut except for this grainy video of Jason Dumars on youtube. He wriggle cuts like a mad-man. I was trying to do the same and it wasn't going to happen. (Maybe in 10 years or so.) But once I slowed down to a speed more conducive to my experience, I found the rhythm pretty easily.

Granted, my first attempt won't win any prizes, but I was pretty happy when all was said and done. I'll try to post some pics of the knife soon.

Hopefully someone will find this helpful.

 

[monk]

between sam tellin me to try a 120, cowboy sayin to try with a liner, and brandvik, tellin me to turn the thing over. there's an entire weeks worth of practice right there. thanks to the 3 of you. i did cook up the 120 last night, but its not finished yet.got to give it a final polish. i'll surely try the liner and see how that looks. as far as turning the graver over, i never had control issues with this type cut, but i'll try it this way. maybe it will be easier. btw, the knife looked great. if your wife doesn't want it, give me a call. thanks to you all !!

 

[jmcutting]

I hope this doesn't come across too stupid... but how does one go about a wiggle cut?

-justin

 

[monk]

hold the graver at nearly straight up and down. simultaneously rock back and forth as you twist the graver on its' axis, propelling it forward. it will create cuts that can add visually interesting details to certain engraving styles, notably the western style. go look at the powley mans' silver bracelets or any of the western buckles. you'll notice this cut right away. it can be done with flat and round gravers. the graver width determines the cut width. the rapidity with which you twist and cause forward motion will determine the fineness or coarseness of this cut. sam alfano also mentioned that a 120 degree graver can be used for this. i made the 120 but hav.nt done the wiggle with it yet. this cut is very easy to execute, just sounds a bit crazy, maybe the way i tried explaining it. i just purchased dianes' tape of western work. the wiggle is a cut that features prominently in a lot of the western style work. hope this helps you. it can also be useful in certain lettering . good luck.

 

[pilkguns]

I don't think the orginal question about the low wiggle (or wriggle) has been answered yet. At least not what I would consider a low wiggle. I have seen this really only done in banjo engraving, and some other thick walled musical instruments like drum supports. I have not seen it done on thin walled instruments like trumpets or tubas for reasons you will understand shortly

This wiggle looks nothing like a high wiggle which is essentially a zigzag line. the low wiggle looks more like a zipper to me, with interlocking teeth, made by the bright cuts. To do the low wiggle, you need some good wrist and forearm strength. You will have to build up to it if you do much of it at all.

The graver is a flat graver with NO heel. It (the bottome of the graver)can be bright polished if you want bright cuts in the brass. I say brass, cause that is mostly what you see in banjos, you could do it in nickel silver as well, but I would not attempt it in steel. I would put about a 45 degree face on the heeless flat graver. with the graver at about a 15 degree attack, push it in as far as you can on the front right side of the graver. When you get it pushed into the brass until it will not go anymore, rock the graver from right to left, so that the burr you just made breaks off more or less straight and you start pushing in as deep as you can with the left side until it stops because you are too deep, rotate the front the graver back over the right side and start the process all over again. Do it fast and in an equal rhythm and you will have a good looking zipper wiggle. Different width gravers can be used of course for different effects, but the wider the flat is the harder your wrist is going to have to work to break the burr as you roll from left to right, right to left.

 

[monk]

thanks scott. i think you just told me how to do a cut that has had me scratchin my head for a long time. i'm thinkin this is the one where the cross cut is usually at about 90 degrees. this cut is pretty neat.

 

[jmcutting]

Monk & Scott,

Thanks for the description... I too just ordered Diane's video so am anxious to see what she shows on it. I'll have to play with this some tonight!

thanks,
-justin

 

[Big-Un]

You could also say "walking the graver" as well as wriggle cut. It almost has the same action as walking the cup when tig welding.

 

[thekoabenchgoldsmith]

In his "Bright Cutting" tutorial Brian Hochstrat has a series of pictures that starts with a wriggled scroll. Its a great example of the wriggled cut. Very evenly executed and it has an "open" pattern that is very attractive. His explanation for the technique is, "I used a 37 flat 40 deg. face and no heel I use the low hand technique and over exagerate the wrist roll to get this type of look."

Aloha,
reb