Having trouble staying interested and engaged with the hobby.

[jzknives]

Hi all.

I have been having trouble keeping engaged with the hobby. Mainly because I have not really produced anything to show for yet.

I am using hand push gravers and I find myself ruining every piece I work on with slips. Keep in mind though that i don't have an engraving vice. Would buying one be a remedy to this? If so would a pepe tools vice be heavy enough for chisel work? I think it's 20 pounds.

Next problem I have is that 99.9 percent of all information on engraving that is modern is always using thousands of dollars worth of air tools and not push gravers/chisels.

Anybody have any suggestions on how to maintain this hobby ?

 

[sam]

My suggestions are:

1.) Take a class, or
2.) Find a local engraver who is willing to help you.
3.) Get a GOOD vise. GRS vises are better and smoother than the Pepe vise Chinese (or India?) knock-off. The Pepe vises I tried were very poor.
4.) Practice learning with hammer & chisel. It's definitely easier than hand-push engraving.

 

[Jared Eason]

Look on Google books for free books on old style engraving if that's what you want to do. Meeks book is an excellent book as well .

 

[Beladran]

I am a newbie to. I didnt think it would be as hard to do this but I was WRONG lol most of the youtube videos are done by "masters". So instead of pulling all my hair out I decided to take one of Sams private 5 day classes next month.

but one thing I have noticed is there is not alot of step by step detailed instructions out there. Well "modern" instructions. Couple of my books still refrence carbide and alcohol lights = (.. Its funny you can watch a step by step video on how to make a airplane out of bamboo, duck tape, and a sears catalog but not on step by step on gold inlay.

 

[Gemsetterchris]

Out of all the information on this & the other engraving sites, I'm fairly certain you can find what your after somewhere..

 

[dlilazteca]

Jzknives

Where to start? I've been at this for some months now, when I started I did not want nor could I afford to spend thousands, but I soon realized that hand pushing or hammer and chisel was going to take me years to learn. So I found some old tools I wasn't using sold them and bought me the Lindsay Classic. I also got some help from people here from the forum I got me a Magna block in payments, I was gifted a book, and I'm now getting one on one instruction from a fellow forum member. I just finished first piece that I can say I can give away to a friend but I would still be embarrassed to post it here but I'm gonna just so you can see that there is hope. I sent a picture to my mentor and he pointed out the 100 places that I can improve on it I'm going to take it back work on it get better give it away and start another. I know I wouldn't be where I'm at if I wasn't using my pneumatic handpiece, help from this forum and its members! I am not telling you which one to buy as both classic and GRS hand pieces are great I've used both all I'm saying is that it would be the best way to go. It would knock years of learning curve. Don't laugh but here's my picture.

One more thing some slips can be erased using a burnisher I learned this from my mentor.




Carlos De La O III

 

[krisf]

One thing i noticed is if i just grab a graver when I'm tired and feel i need to cut something for the sake of "keeping my skills up" and don't do any layout and don't sharpen my tools perfectly its a waste of time and a major hit to my confidence.Clear head, proper planning and tool maintenance is 90% of the work.
The 7 P's --
Proper
Prior
Planning
Prevents
Pi**
Poor
Performance

 

[DKanger]

Anybody have any suggestions on how to maintain this hobby ?

How about a little "Tuff Luv?" Here are some points to ponder:
1. If you think education is expensive, consider the price of ignorance.
2. Penny wise, pound foolish.
3. If you're gonna run with the big dogs, ya gotta lift yer leg higher.
4. The toolboxes of professional mechanics are not filled with tools from Harbor Freight.
5. You only get out of something what you put in to it.

Need I go on? Success in an endeavor is a mental exercise requiring the proper mindset. Only you can provide that. Valuable advice has been given many times over and you have chosen to reject it. Hand push engraving is largely the purview of those working in precious metals; ie, gold and silver. Why? Because they are soft metals which lend themselves to it. You are dooming yourself to failure. As Sam mentioned, step up to hammer chasing which is more suited to what you are doing. It is not expensive, but an investment in tools and training are required, regardless of where you obtain them.

Next problem I have is that 99.9 percent of all information on engraving that is modern is always using thousands of dollars worth of air tools

John Shipper's book "Engraving Historical Firearms" contains all the information you need to be successful. If it is too expensive for you, then you will not be successful. (See point #1)

 

[Eric Olson]

Your engraving will never be better than your drawing -
Spend as much time as you have to to get a design you are happy with before you start to engrave it.

 

[Roger Bleile]

Many of us have said it here over and over, if you are serious about learning H&C or push engraving, buy the John Schippers instruction manual. He shows how to make your own tools, sharpen, and use them. John mentions the power tools in the back of the book but it is all about using traditional tools. Here is a link: http://www.airgraver.com/Engraving-Historic-Firarms-John-Schippers.htm

Right here at the Engraver's Café is the tool list for beginners: http://www.engraverscafe.com/showthread.php?13891-Tool-List-for-Beginners

When I began learning engraving 38 years ago, I had one graver with a wooden handle, a small hammer and a vise similar to the one shown in this link. http://www.harborfreight.com/3-inch-swivel-vise-7421.html

After learning to cut with H&C, I taught myself to push using a square graver. After stabbing myself in the left hand, I learned that I was trying to learn using too hard metal. I began practicing with my burin on plastic to get the feel then went to copper, then to mild steel. Pushing is primarily done by professionals in silver and gold.

Basically, while there are numerous people who do good hand engraving on a hobby level, it is not for the person who tends to hop from one craft or hobby to another. To master the art requires quite a bit of dedication and perseverance.

RB

 

[silverchip]

Carlos, we all started engraving in way over our heads.I was certainly disappointed with my first results. The difference between wanting to engrave and engraving is persistence and desire.Ya gotta wanna!!!!!

 

[FerrousOxide]

Hi all.

I have been having trouble keeping engaged with the hobby. Mainly because I have not really produced anything to show for yet.

Anybody have any suggestions on how to maintain this hobby ?

JZ...
Another engraving noobie here, and yes, I understand your issues. I had no idea when I started what I was getting into.
BUT, I love what I'm doing and am excited to see progress, however small it may be. Some suggestions/comments....
Start by deciding what you want to get out of the "hobby". If it's a every so often, something to do to be interesting... this may not be for you. From what I've seen, engraving takes DEDICATION and LOTS of practice. If you don't enjoy the practice, you won't want to do it. You won't have "something to show for it" for some time... get used to the idea.
You DO need to invest in equipment... start with whatever you can, but have a plan to add incrementally as you can. If you want to drive a race car, starting with a Yugo IS a starting point, but it's not going to get you where you want to be.
Listen to the advice you are getting here on the forum.... there is a wealth of knowledge here. Hand pushing may not be the place to start. H&C will be easier to get into than power-assisted engraving. It's a tough road, don't make it harder on yourself.
I agree with the suggestion to find a local mentor.... doing this on my own would have driven me crazy months ago. (Thanks Brian!)
I hope you stick with it and find a way to get some local support... good luck!!

 

[GTJC460]

Where are you located? Maybe post that info and you might be surprised to find someone near by willing to give you some pointers.

A really good idea is make sure you are working with a nice soft metal.

With push engraving you've really got to understand the limits of how deep you can go while maintaining tool control. You will really only learn this with the proper tools, which first includes a proper vice and tool sharpening setup.

 

[Kevin Scott]

Hi all.

I have been having trouble keeping engaged with the hobby. Mainly because I have not really produced anything to show for yet.

I am using hand push gravers and I find myself ruining every piece I work on with slips. Keep in mind though that i don't have an engraving vice. Would buying one be a remedy to this? If so would a pepe tools vice be heavy enough for chisel work? I think it's 20 pounds.

Next problem I have is that 99.9 percent of all information on engraving that is modern is always using thousands of dollars worth of air tools and not push gravers/chisels.

Anybody have any suggestions on how to maintain this hobby ?

If you started engraving in or around when you joined this forum in June 2013:

It is very unlikely you would have "produced anything to show for it", unless you took classes or went air power. It does take awhile to learn push power on your own, even with the help of the forums, books, videos etc.

At this point I don't think an engraving vise would help you avoid slips. Sharp tools, proper geometry, knowing the limits of push power and your limits are more important than an engraving vise to prevent slips. When thing go wrong, figure out what happened that made it go wrong.

Info doing it non air power:
There is plenty out there: Pre air power engraving books that focus mostly on lettering on softer metals. Meeks and John Schnippers books.

I have bought over ten "how to" books on engraving. I keep thinking that the next one will supply the magic answers. So far none have.
What it boils down to, there really is not a whole lot to engraving compared to other skills as far as book knowledge. You do have to understand the fundamentals, geometry, and tool sharpening.

As far as "maintaining interest" the main thing is you must love engraving. If you don't have that, the only rational thing to do is to quit.
One way I have maintained interest is by having realistic expectations. I have stuck to lettering because I like lettering. Have resisted doing other things until I am as good as a letter engraver as I can be. I would rather be B+ at one aspect of engraving than be C+ at ten aspects of engraving.

Advice: Put the push gravers aside for now. Buy Schnippers book. Go hammer and chisel. Don't need an engraving vise for hammer and chisel. A regular swiveling vise will do for starting out.

 

[GTJC460]

IT'S A HECK OF A LOT EASIER TO ENGRAVE SMALL.

Most beginners try doing large designs. Try focusing on making cuts that are no bigger than 1/4" in length.

 

[dlilazteca]

"Buy the best and you'll be more likely to succeed" Don Glasser

From his instructional dvd..

Need we say more

Carlos De La O III

 

[sam]

Believe me, I know how difficult it is to stay motivated when you're not seeing any results for your efforts. I struggled on and off with hand engraving for 10 years before I started calling myself an engraver. That was before the many books, forums, videos, classes, and engravers willing to share their knowledge.

It's pretty well proven that rank beginners leave engraving classes being able to engrave far better than the fellow learning by trial and error. If you can't get to a class, then do whatever it takes to get to an engraver who is willing to spend a few hours with you.

You've been given sound advice which many of us never had when starting out. The ball is in your court. Now make it happen.

 

[Willem Parel]

Oh, I reckognise many things whiche are written in this thread, and many advises here is what keep me going, thank you all for that dear friends!!!

 

[John P. Anderson]

I'm glad you posted as I feel push graving is an excellent and inexpensive hobby....... if you persevere.........

Push graving is a complex motor skills taking hours and hours, years to perfect. If your having trouble that's normal. Still you should be able to make small cuts without slipping. Your trying to ski like an expert when you belong on the bunny slope. Give it time.

If your slipping odds are your tools isn't sharp enough. Can you sharpen your pocket knife well enough to shave hair? If not your wanting on your graver. You must establish and maintain the basic angles without rocking your wrist and use plenty of pressure. Go from coarser stone true up the graver and finish on the fine stone.

Make sure however you hold your work it is held solid with zero flex.

Stick to soft metal to start. Do small projects like pendants and dog tags.

I saw a heavy metal swivel chair with cushion replaced by a board being used successfully as a vise.

Mostly, keep at it.........

John

 

[jzknives]

I'm glad you posted as I feel push graving is an excellent and inexpensive hobby....... if you persevere.........

Push graving is a complex motor skills taking hours and hours, years to perfect. If your having trouble that's normal. Still you should be able to make small cuts without slipping. Your trying to ski like an expert when you belong on the bunny slope. Give it time.

If your slipping odds are your tools isn't sharp enough. Can you sharpen your pocket knife well enough to shave hair? If not your wanting on your graver. You must establish and maintain the basic angles without rocking your wrist and use plenty of pressure. Go from coarser stone true up the graver and finish on the fine stone.

Make sure however you hold your work it is held solid with zero flex.

Stick to soft metal to start. Do small projects like pendants and dog tags.

I saw a heavy metal swivel chair with cushion replaced by a board being used successfully as a vise.

Mostly, keep at it.........

John

Im using the lindesy sharpening guides (96 and 116 degree)

I have a myriad of waterstones going up to 8000 grit and 2 diamond stones , one 600 and one 1200 grit.

How often should i be sharpening if im using carbide graver bits?