Apprenticeships - back on thread

[Gemsetterchris]

I think apprenticeships are abit "old hat",
There is so much more option to learn these days with the internet, email....
Apprentices are expensive & run off to do their own thing once qualified anyway (don`t we all).
I`d love to teach someone stone setting for example but..
I`m sure there are ways of having a "mentor" or something on a freetime basis for a small fee that would work just as well..possibly :thinking:

 

[rod]

This is a good thread to allow us to hear about the training of others on the forum.

I completed a seven year apprenticeship as a toolmaker in Scotland starting at age fifteen, that is, at puberty, and it was not until later in my life that I had some insight into why this early age does make sense. That was the norm going into the trades in Scotland at that time. Rather than having a careful one on one from a journeyman, very quickly you were doing a man's work for the 44 hour week, the total weekly wage was 27 shillings, in old money, and would be about $2 a week US. Later on I was able to see this was a rite of passage into manhood, but did not grasp that at the time. I had already been building my own lathes, etc., and collecting hand tools from about the age of thirteen. Gradually I began to see the wisdom in long apprenticeships, the first years are needed to empty the mind, after which it can be filled rather quickly. Of course, no one had heard of Zen around my impoverished neighbourhood, it was simply the old tradition, and appeared to work.

In 18th century Scotland, when Adam Smith, and his friend David Hume were writing their books that led to world wide fame in economics and philosophy, it was the norm to start university at a very early age, adolescence was not yet invented as an available human condition. Hume started university in Edinburgh at age eleven, for example. Like Roger posted here, concurrently with factory work I had to do my book learning at night school.

Quite frankly, I would have been overjoyed to have a long and intensive apprenticeship with a few masters in a small shop, and I can see that Italy, Austria, the Low Countries and other European countries do appear to offer a limited number of what seems excellent and deep engraving apprenticeships, however these trainings appear to start later in life than in earlier times. We know that the human brain is still developing up till about the age of twenty one, and can, with luck, remain malleable to good effect. None of what I am writing here is cast in stone, simply my own path, right or wrong, yet others have discovered that a young mind, under the care of a master of good humanity, can sometimes be a good start. The idea of a 'rite of passage' and its importance to the male gender seems to have been naively discarded by much of modern society. Women, and there are many splendid masters on this forum, must write of their own experience to properly inform us menfolk, but what life teaches me, is that young men seem to have more trouble finding their bearing in life, whereas women appear to have an instinctive grasp about life, no? Shakespeare had something to say about seizing the right moment:

"There is a tide in the affairs of men.
Which, taken at the flood, leads on to fortune;
Omitted, all the voyage of their life
Is bound in shallows and in miseries.
On such a full sea are we now afloat,
And we must take the current when it serves,
Or lose our ventures. "

Let me repeat, these are just a few thoughts, and this forum demonstrates that great masters, women and men, have come to fame by many different paths.

I rather lean towards Silverchip-Dave's path. Although I started right into using tools, I did eventually go whole hog with the book learning, but always felt that we humans were first and foremost creatures with opposing thumbs, a very long innings as tool makers, yet with an agile brain, needing to stay alert to stay alive. Granted, academics can and do make great contributions in life. I felt more grounded with the grease under my fingernails, and moved back from academia to hammers and chisels, a poorer way to make a living, yet for me, a better way to make a human life.

Rod

 

[Dave London]

I started my apprenticeship at 14 working for my fathers plumbing company, mostly summer and holidays. the first job I was dropped off at a house and dad gave me my lunch box,a pick and shovel. Then he said dig a ditch from the house to the street 2 feet wide and 6 feet deep, it was about 30 yards long. then he said I be back a 4:00. Well i worked all day no lunch and did not even get 10 yards about 3 feet down. After he picked me up he told me he want me to see how hard it was to make a dollar. I still hate to operate a shovel

 

[Brian Marshall]

The plumber that just left here makes more money than I do.

Drives a brand new truck.

Has a lot less invested in tools too...

People just won't live without functioning indoor plumbing.

They WILL do without baubles and beads first.


B.

 

[silverchip]

Fortunately we are able to pick our patrons, in other words we strive to not have to cater to someone that might have to choose between conveniences and luxuries.This business is about finding clients that don't have to choose but we won't turn down someone if they choose to purchase something from you. This is part of being able to make a decent living at what you love to do and passing on your knowledge to the next generation that chooses to take up the craft. This is what draws new blood into the fields of metalsmithing, jewelery ect. We as humans are the only living organism on earth that express ourselves in some artistic form or another, and there will be others that follow in your footsteps.They will have to learn from somewhere,why not make it better for them?

 

[Dave London]

Hi Brian
YEP, although I don't agree about the tool expense. A sewer camera is about 10,000 +
Take care, I hope he fixed your problems, and now you know why plumbers don't chew finger nails

 

[rod]

Yes, Brian,

I am hesitating calling the plumber to fix a slow flow in my workshop pipes.

Dave, was it you that told me about the plumber called in to fix a leaky faucet in the New York penthouse of a brain surgeon, who just about had a stroke when he got the bill.

"That only took you five minutes, outrageous! Do you know I earn less per hour than this when I am operating?"

"Yes", said the plumber, "That's why I gave up Medicine..."

 

[Dave London]

Hi Rod
That's right, a good line/ story, also don't delay getting the slow drain taken care of it will cost a lot more after it plugs up.
Take care Dave

 

[matthew.townsley]

Roger,

I'm a jewellery apprentice in NSW, Australia. I only got in as my step-father is a jeweller. The number of jewellery apprecntices has diminished to single figures I believe this year, hand engraving help is very difficult to find here, TAFE course has been discontinued.

I for one see the great value in apprenticeship learning, particularly with tasks that require repetition in order to progress. I have a degree in Industrial Design, and am now completing an apprenticeship, as well as teaching myself hand engraving in my spare time. Academic learning is good, and particularly in the jewellery trade there is a definite lack of business-minded teaching, but design at university was far theoretical; many of us had reality checks when we went to work and found out that whart we designed, and what was realistic in terms of building were very different.

 

[Roger B]

Roger,

Academic learning is good, and particularly in the jewellery trade there is a definite lack of business-minded teaching, but design at university was far theoretical; many of us had reality checks when we went to work and found out that whart we designed, and what was realistic in terms of building were very different.

Matthew,

This is what I've been saying for years about jewellery design. So called designers who have no practical experience in actually making a piece of jewellery - sharp points on rings, deep cut stones to be set as pendants without a surround to keep them pointing to the front - instead they just roll around - unless the wearer has a cleavage which will point the stone in the right direction, even a little thing as a multi-strand pearl clasp where the holes on the clasp are too close together for the large sized beads that are to be strung - I'm sorry but I'm getting off track again.

You mention that the number of apprentices are in the single figures - is that over the whole 3-4 years or each year? When I was doing my indenture I think we only had about 10 students but that was in each year. I reckon most left the trade within 5 years after qualifying.

Business training in the last year would make a lot of sense - even if was to learn how to value your time and price work. This is one of the things the employer doesn't tend to teach.

Roger

 

[Brian Marshall]

I once had an account that had hired a brand new ""Jewelry Design" graduate from the Gemological Institute of America. (Yeah, I know we spell "jewellery" different on this side of the pond)

I was sent a drawing of a fairly simple ring done by this graduate to make up and set.

Had to inform the owner of the store that it was not possible under the spatial rules of this particular planet in this particular galaxy to accomplish the goal...


The "designer" had never made a piece of jewelry in her life!

Dunno that she ever did? That store continued to send me work, but the designs were not by her.



Brian

 

[Gemsetterchris]

Might be possible Brian, not by conventional methods but these days there are fancy machinery things that change the game abit.....
http://www.cpm-emanufacturing.com/

 

[Brian Marshall]

Chris - Ummm... this was in the days before computer rendering and cad/cam

Pencil and watercolors. Not enough metal would have been left to support either prongs or gallerywork in what she drew.

Physically impossible.


B.

 

[simone-cervellati]

I don't agree with the statement that there are so many other ways to learn the craft other than apprenticeships, they give the student a way of supporting him/herself while learning, and a mentor there for him/her to answer questions and fix mistakes. it is in no way comparable to a school or something learned on the internet.. hadn't it been for my first teacher I would not be doing any of this stuff because I didn't have the money for a school and the internet doesn't give enough info if you are starting out and have no clue about the trade you'd like to get into..
and saying that the students go away anyway isn't exactly right, I went back to my hometown because I didn't want to keep living 12000 km away from the place I call home.. had it been in my city I would have never left but people here think that apprentices flee and steal your clients when they know the trade.. you spend 8hrs a day with your apprentice, if he's a spoiled apple you will know well before he knows enough to steal your clients..

just my 2 cents..

Simone

 

[Gemsetterchris]

All apprentices do their own thing in the end, that's life ( unless they are lucky to be with highly regarded luxury brand workshop )..the unwritten rule is to find their own customers.
You can find everything on the internet if you can be bothered to search & you can also find a mentor to ask..

Brian: I remember those day's
Knowledge of all the aspects of jewellery making is critical for great work, wether you design, make or set...

By the way, I served a traditional 5 year apprenticeship for gemsetting after doing 2 years at jewellery school, learning/practicing abit about each section of the trade before making a choice of direction.
I'm very thankful for those teachers & the experience it brought me.