Basic 'rules' of scrollwork

[Kevin P.]

Marcus, there was a thread about copying as opposed to drawing. I copy all the time. I have the book of Lynton's with his smoke prints. I like his designs; I do a laser/acetone transfer onto steel and cut it. I have and continue to learn via this process At a certain point when I've learned all I feel I can learn I will no longer copy Lynton's work.
Picasso was the draughtsman he was because he went to The Prado and copied the masters and learned.

Another point if I may. There is no way you could teach what you've learned to your students. I was a student at SUNY at Buffalo, NY. I was a graduate student in a PHd program in English Literature. The professor who first comes to mind taught a graduate seminar in Shakespeare's plays. He would tell us to read, say, "Lear" for our next meeting. He, at the next class, would pick a line from the play and use that line as a take off point for an extemporaneous discourse on "Lear" for the next hour or so.
I always left his class anxious to go back and reread the play. He had such a passion for Shakespeare that he generated that passion in us.
My point here is that as you say how can you compress what you know into five day's classroom work. But if you are passionate about your work, that's everything. It's infectious. It's not the particulars of engraving that are the most important.
Kevin P.

 

[pilkguns]

Kevin, I am not familar with the copy/drawing thread you mention, but based on your explanation, I would say that you are setting yourself up for hardship down the road.

You need to learn to draw scrolls as well as cut them. It's a double edged sword for a beginning engraver, as they need to have good scrolls to cut and the need to learn to draw good scrolls at the same time. But if you only copy scrolls, using various transfer methods, you will never be apply to apply them effectively to the myriads of shapes that you will encounter in knives, guns, jewelry , car parts etc. You need to learn to fill the space effectively, at the same time as you are learning to cut them otherwise, you will be lost in the real world applications of engraving.

I always teach the dot method doing scrolls, and reccomend that you doodle scrolls every chance you get. It is the only that you can begin to excel in this artform. Good luck with it.

 

[ddushane]

Thanks Marcus for the advise and thanks for this great thread!

Scott, That's what I'm trying to do, I'm a 911 dispatcher and when nothing is going on I doodle on my yellow tablet, I draw scrolls for hours on end, if something turns out that I like I tear it off and take it home to incorporate it into a pattern I'm working on
for a bolster or something or just for a practice plate.

Dwayne

 

[Ron Smith]

One more thing to add About being unique:

I worked with scrolls for about 15 years before my own graceful, well structured, creativity began to show in a definate visual certainty. There were subtle individual cuts and strokes that made my work slightly destinguishable, but other than that it was pretty traditional stuff. We all start in the same place, but we might not end up in the same place depending on the depth of passion for the art. That is the dividing factor.

I found that having an intimate knowledge through years of study of all styles of scrolls and leafs, I began to come into my own. Now I have my own style, but it has taken me a lifetime.

You are unique because of who you are, and that uniqueness will begin to shine through when you get enough experience and knowledge. When you add personality to structure you get uniqueness because we don't all see it the same. It is subtle at first, grossly noticible at last because design is then a part of you instead of being foreign. It will just burst out of you and you cannot help it. It will just flow out of your fingers, so I wouldn't worry too much about that at this early point. It will come.

Just do your homework and keep climbing.

Ron S

 

[Marcus Hunt]

Scott, you're right and I need to qualiify what I'm saying about copying. I'm coming at this from an old fashioned direction. Transfers were the last thing on my mind when I said "copy". I'm talking 'seeing' a design and 'copying' it with a pencil. Try to understand what the engraver was doing as you're drawing. Don't just copy something in a robotic manner and without some sort of comprehension of what you're doing.

 

[Kevin P.]

Scott, it's difficult to convey everything in a short post. The copying I referred to is separate from learning scrolls.
Marcus, I transfer to get quickly to the cutting part. I'm learning by doing; finding out by cutting how an experienced engraver makes certain cuts.
T.S.Eliot said bad poets borrow; good poets steal. I feel there's an equivalency in engraving. "Stealing" is when one understands the basis so well that one incorporates without realizing it.
I'm not talking about slavishly imitating.
As I learn more engraving I'm able to perceive more in the engraving of others than before. That's also part of my learning process. I can't speak for others.
I also feel I can recognize quality and perhaps by some visual osmosis I take in bits and pieces. I'm also a patient person; at least in this area.
When any of you guys post I read carefully copy out what I feel is pertinent for me and let it stew in my brain; hopefully until I fully realize the import of what was said.

"Don't just copy something in a robotic manner and without some sort of comprehension of what you're doing."
Marcus if there is anyone doing what you describe that person is an idiot and will soon drop away.
Kevin P.

 

[Kevin P.]

Scott, I believe you were out of the country when that thread was ongoing.
I believe that you misunderstood what I said. Perhaps I wasn't clear enough; and maybe my reply to Marcus will help clarify. What I said about copying was not referring to scrolls at all.
I was referring to teaching methodology.
Kevin P.

 

[ddushane]

I appreciate all the time you guys have spent on this subject explaining everything. I for one am listening & hearing you all. I really want this. I've wanted this for close to 30 yrs. I'm 45 now, but as a youngster, say 8 yrs old I loved holding and admiring fine knives & guns most especially the ones that were engraved and a burning desire started in me at that time to learn to do the same things. I also love good leather work. The building knives has really been a blessing for me. I love creating but I want it to be something worth having, worth admiring. Not to make money. I've always liked and quoted the saying at the bottom of Marcus' replies, "The bitterness of poor quality remains long after the sweetness of the low price is forgotten." It was on our office wall at the construction company I use to weld for. I always tried to make each weld as pretty as I could, I wanted the inspector to be pleased with my work, not just for it to pass x-ray but to be appealing to the eye. I want the same in my knifemaking, fileworking and engraving. I know hanging out here with you guys, one day I'll get there with my engraving. Thanks for all the input,

Dwayne