I am having problems with Chinese white going on too thick and uneven. I am getting "dead" spots that will not take pencil lead. Are there any other layout coatings that are more user friendly, or should I try a different brand of the Chinese white?
Chinese White
- Thread starter LRB
- Start date
LRB: I'm one of the few engravers who doesn't use Chinese white, but that's only because I started with beeswax & tallow and never got around to experimenting much with Chinese white. I do believe it's the best choice for layouts and I need to get on the bandwagon with it.
Winston Churchill briskly rubs the surface of the metal with a pink eraser prior to applying Chinese white. This deep cleans the metal and allows the Chinese white to adhere better. He gave me an old tube of the stuff he uses made by Winsor & Newton. I'm not sure if it's better or a different formula than what's made today...the tube he gave me is probably 30 years old. When applied correctly, you can draw on it with a soft pencil and even gently erase with a kneadable eraser. I'll be interested to read the responses in this thread. I should start using Chinese white myself.
Winston Churchill briskly rubs the surface of the metal with a pink eraser prior to applying Chinese white. This deep cleans the metal and allows the Chinese white to adhere better. He gave me an old tube of the stuff he uses made by Winsor & Newton. I'm not sure if it's better or a different formula than what's made today...the tube he gave me is probably 30 years old. When applied correctly, you can draw on it with a soft pencil and even gently erase with a kneadable eraser. I'll be interested to read the responses in this thread. I should start using Chinese white myself.
I have two forms of chinese white. One is a solid block that you wet your finger, rub the block, then rub the chinese white on your piece to be engraved. The other is in a tube as mentioned by Sam.To me both work equally bad.
The way we have discussed transfering drawings onto work pieces with fluids and printers seems to be so much better. It doesn't chip off and the lines are so much sharper. I'm in no way disagreeing with users of chinese white. I just have not perfected its use. (Winston, please don't read this)
The way we have discussed transfering drawings onto work pieces with fluids and printers seems to be so much better. It doesn't chip off and the lines are so much sharper. I'm in no way disagreeing with users of chinese white. I just have not perfected its use. (Winston, please don't read this)
NJhandengraverRon
Member
Chinese white layout
Hi LRB
I've been using Chinese white for almost 20 years on 9o% of all my hand layout first and most of all it can't be a no name brand the only brand I use is Winsor & Newton.
There are two kinds tub & squeeze tube; I mostly use the tub it looks like the stuff we used as a kid, I found when I first stated using it the best way was to spit on my finger
rub it over the tub of white then rub my finger on the item, if to thick spit on the item and rub a little more, it it’s beading up wipe your finger off it’s to wet then rub it some more.
Squeeze Tube takes a little more time learn it’s thicker and should be brushed on with a wet brush it will also turn a brownish color if left on over night, also
will chip off if to thick then drawing on.
Once you get it it’s like riding a bike you never forget and you don’t think about it.
I’ll add a couple layout pictures you can look at hope it helps
God Bless
Ron Proulx
Hi LRB
I've been using Chinese white for almost 20 years on 9o% of all my hand layout first and most of all it can't be a no name brand the only brand I use is Winsor & Newton.
There are two kinds tub & squeeze tube; I mostly use the tub it looks like the stuff we used as a kid, I found when I first stated using it the best way was to spit on my finger
rub it over the tub of white then rub my finger on the item, if to thick spit on the item and rub a little more, it it’s beading up wipe your finger off it’s to wet then rub it some more.
Squeeze Tube takes a little more time learn it’s thicker and should be brushed on with a wet brush it will also turn a brownish color if left on over night, also
will chip off if to thick then drawing on.
Once you get it it’s like riding a bike you never forget and you don’t think about it.
I’ll add a couple layout pictures you can look at hope it helps
God Bless
Ron Proulx
Attachments
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Chinese white lay out.jpg -
Cup-layout-white.jpg
Thanks for posting the photos and tips, Ron. Looks like you're getting good results. As for Winston, he leaves his tube open (the exposed Chinese white is dry) and touches his wet fingertip to it and spreads it on the metal (with his finger). It looks like you're getting a very even application with the brush.
What about erasing and re-drawing? My biggest gripe with Chinese white was that I either drew through it and not on it, and trying to erase without removing it was really difficult. Obviously I need practice.
Glenn: Computer transfers are fast and easy, but majority of the time engravers hand draw layouts directly on the workpiece.
What about erasing and re-drawing? My biggest gripe with Chinese white was that I either drew through it and not on it, and trying to erase without removing it was really difficult. Obviously I need practice.
Glenn: Computer transfers are fast and easy, but majority of the time engravers hand draw layouts directly on the workpiece.
FANCYGUN
~ Elite 1000 Member ~
I have never really gotten used to china white and have been freehand drawing on metal by dabbing the surface with modeling clay, then just dusting the surface with talc. I can draw through this and even redraw by applying more talc. The disadvantage is you have to be careful and not rub it off which is not usually a problem. I also sometimes just draw onto the metal with a .01 felt tip drafting marker for a more lasting image
KSnyder
Elite Cafe Member
I got both, the cake & a tube of Gumbracher from the art store.Both seems to work about the same. I apply it with a sable hair brush which isn't cheap but will apply it nice & thin and even if cut with a bit of water.Seems like the tube stuff is more concentrated.
I gotta admit though most designs are drawn on or burnished on over the tallow & beeswax combo which I like alot. I find with Chinese white the drawing has to be with a soft lead and tends to end up with thicker lines & hence you must be a "line interpretor" to make sure you are cutting where you want.
my $.02
Kent
I gotta admit though most designs are drawn on or burnished on over the tallow & beeswax combo which I like alot. I find with Chinese white the drawing has to be with a soft lead and tends to end up with thicker lines & hence you must be a "line interpretor" to make sure you are cutting where you want.
my $.02
Kent
NJhandengraverRon
Member
Sam
I do the same with the tub I put a little in an empty block and let it lay around I just didn’t want to confuse him anymore then he was, but I really like the block maybe it's me but I think it works better. As for erasing I’m really good and never have to do that HAHA!!! I just keep a damp sponge on my desk touch my finger then rub lightly in the area I need to fix if need be I’ll touch the block of white to go over it as well. Like I said it’s so ingrained in me I don’t really think about it.
God Bless
Ron Proulx
I do the same with the tub I put a little in an empty block and let it lay around I just didn’t want to confuse him anymore then he was, but I really like the block maybe it's me but I think it works better. As for erasing I’m really good and never have to do that HAHA!!! I just keep a damp sponge on my desk touch my finger then rub lightly in the area I need to fix if need be I’ll touch the block of white to go over it as well. Like I said it’s so ingrained in me I don’t really think about it.
God Bless
Ron Proulx
ken dixon
Elite Cafe Member
Sam, When you use the beeswax and tallow can you draw on it with pencil or do you scribe through it? Could you expand on this? Thanks Ken
NJhandengraverRon
Member
Sam
Ken just reminded me to add something I don’t scribe after Chinese white I cut the fingers off Playtex gloves and use one on my thumb, I needed it more when I was doing all push engraving, what this does is blocks any moisture from my finger rubbing off the white when I engraved also it helped with push engraving from slipping as well as taking pressure off the finger.
God Bless
Ron Proulx
Ken just reminded me to add something I don’t scribe after Chinese white I cut the fingers off Playtex gloves and use one on my thumb, I needed it more when I was doing all push engraving, what this does is blocks any moisture from my finger rubbing off the white when I engraved also it helped with push engraving from slipping as well as taking pressure off the finger.
God Bless
Ron Proulx
Bill Brockway
Member
Ron Proulx gave it to you right. The key to success with Chinese white is PUT IT ON THIN ! I have a dried up jar of white opaque water color with only a tiny amount left in the bottom of the bottle, which I use by moistening my thumb, then rubbing it around on the dried-up paint, then rubbing it around on the workpiece until there is a light, filmy haze on the surface. If the white is thin enough, you can draw on it without chipping or flaking. Anything that looks like a coat of paint is way too much, and it will chip and flake.
To make corrections, just moisten your thumb and redistribute the haze, then draw over it again. You will have to scribe the lines before cutting, though, as your fingers holding the graver will erase the pencil marks if you're not careful. This three-step layout process is a very neat way to "correct as you go," in refining your design. First, do the pencil drawing on the Chinese white film (remember, just a haze, not a "coat"), then go over it with the scribe, making little corrections in the design, then erase all the white with a damp cloth, and go over it with the graver, again making minor corrections as you cut.
Bill
To make corrections, just moisten your thumb and redistribute the haze, then draw over it again. You will have to scribe the lines before cutting, though, as your fingers holding the graver will erase the pencil marks if you're not careful. This three-step layout process is a very neat way to "correct as you go," in refining your design. First, do the pencil drawing on the Chinese white film (remember, just a haze, not a "coat"), then go over it with the scribe, making little corrections in the design, then erase all the white with a damp cloth, and go over it with the graver, again making minor corrections as you cut.
Bill
I never really took to Chinese white. I thought it cover up the metal to well.
I also use bees wax and goat tallow. I put it on and use a pencil to scribe
though it. You can also use anything that will not mark the metal.
The other thing I found is that china white can be slightly abrasive
and can leave silver with a sort of a filmy smudge. Bees wax cleans
up as though it were never there.
I also use bees wax and goat tallow. I put it on and use a pencil to scribe
though it. You can also use anything that will not mark the metal.
The other thing I found is that china white can be slightly abrasive
and can leave silver with a sort of a filmy smudge. Bees wax cleans
up as though it were never there.
Last edited:
NJhandengraverRon
Member
Bill
Try this cut fingers off Playtex gloves the kind to wash dishes slip one on your thumb and (pointer finger if needed) then try and rub off the Chinese white with the covered finger; you can’t!!
So now you can skip the scribing by keeping them on, if your finger rubs nothing will happen I’ve been doing this for years, it could double your out put or give you a little more time to do other things.
Let me know if you give it a try.
God Bless
Ron Proulx
Try this cut fingers off Playtex gloves the kind to wash dishes slip one on your thumb and (pointer finger if needed) then try and rub off the Chinese white with the covered finger; you can’t!!
So now you can skip the scribing by keeping them on, if your finger rubs nothing will happen I’ve been doing this for years, it could double your out put or give you a little more time to do other things.
Let me know if you give it a try.
God Bless
Ron Proulx
Billzach
Elite Cafe Member
Ron, i didn,t know how many engravers spit on their finger and rubbed it on the chinese white to use it, maybe we all do..
NJhandengraverRon
Member
OK Bill
It's kind of like having gas we all know we get it but not sure if we should tell anyone, OK now it's out in the open ( MY NAME IS RON AND I'M A FINGER SPITER ) I need help.
God Bless
Ron Proulx
It's kind of like having gas we all know we get it but not sure if we should tell anyone, OK now it's out in the open ( MY NAME IS RON AND I'M A FINGER SPITER ) I need help.
God Bless
Ron Proulx
Dave London
~ Elite 1000 Member ~
Spit and finger works best for me, and a little hair spray to fix the image
I have a block of Chinese white that had a horrible health warning on it. A student of mine said "Don't worry, you have eat several bricks of that stuff before it'll hurt you."
Sam, your student was perfectly correct about the health problem.
Early day Chinese White was stacked ( oxidized ) lead.
Many old engravers got the shakes and a lot died of lead poison from licking their finger to wet the block.
There was still some lead based product around 25 yeas ago.
Now, it's not lead based in the US, but don't trust the imports.
Just my thoughts, John B.
Early day Chinese White was stacked ( oxidized ) lead.
Many old engravers got the shakes and a lot died of lead poison from licking their finger to wet the block.
There was still some lead based product around 25 yeas ago.
Now, it's not lead based in the US, but don't trust the imports.
Just my thoughts, John B.
The Chinese white I bought does not rub off without some effort, and it came as a liquid from Laural Mt. Forge. It is labeled " ENGRAVING AND LAYOUT WHITE". I am assuming it is Chinese white, just in liquid form. I spilled a bit of it, and there is room in the bottle for a little water. I am thinking of thinning it a bit, unless some of you think it could cause more problems. The instructions say to remove it, use amonia or windex. It is water soluble until it dries. I wipe it off with acetone. Do you think I bought the right stuff?
Hello LRB.
Some of the liquid stuff sold in a bottle for engraving layout is nothing more than typing white-out fluid.
They buy it in bulk and rebottle it into small containers.
There are two types of white-out. Water base and solvent based.
If this is what you have its hard to know which it is without seeing and smelling it.
Just pour out a little and see if it mixes with water.
Office suppliers sell a solvent for the solvent based one.
Hope this is some help, John B.
Some of the liquid stuff sold in a bottle for engraving layout is nothing more than typing white-out fluid.
They buy it in bulk and rebottle it into small containers.
There are two types of white-out. Water base and solvent based.
If this is what you have its hard to know which it is without seeing and smelling it.
Just pour out a little and see if it mixes with water.
Office suppliers sell a solvent for the solvent based one.
Hope this is some help, John B.
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