Hold The Phone

[K Frei]

O.K. I'm about to get up on a soap box; so bear with me if you will, or ignore the remainder of this post.
I have been biting my tongue for long enough.
there are many here who need to take a lesson or two in diplomacy, from those who we respect the most on This Forum! I have been reading with interest most new posts for the last week or so. Why do so many of us have to be so blunt?

I'll be the first to admit that some of my work has been PAINFUL to even look at, and that is why I've joined this forum.... to help me to improve! and I believe that is the main purpose of 95% of the engravers on here; the other 5% are the masters who we all respect.

take a few min to think of your worst post and then think of the way, Sam,Lee,Roger; and many others who i cannot remember right now (please forgive me for that) respond; they are always there to build up, not tear down.

There Is No Such Thing As Constructive Criticism! The two are opposite and will always be that way, and if you really look at the way the phrase is formed you truly are building up only to then tear down. there is a phrase some will call scripture, others only good advise but it says: "Reproving betimes with sharpness.... and then showing forth an Increase of love toward him [her] whom thou hast reproved, lest he esteem thee to be his enemy" (d&c 121;43)

My point is simply to ask people to be kinder. Please? I don't want to go into specific examples lest I be guilty of my own complaint, but know none of them have been my own posts, I just feel for some of the people on here.

If you have made it this far thanks. K Frei

 

[Sam]

I've been gone for several days and wasn't able to read the forum as I normally do (and even when I'm not gone I rarely have time to to read every single post). That said, I don't recall seeing any unkindness or anyone tearing anyone else down, nor have my moderators reported anything to me. If I see anyone being unkind or not conducting themselves according to the Rules, I don't hesitate to let them know. At the same time we have to keep in mind that this is a forum consisting of 5000+ crazy artistic types that spend endless hours working on something the size of a postage stamp so we're all a bit nutty by default. Also, keep in mind that the typed word sometimes appears differently than it was meant.

 

[Haraga.com]

K frei, try not to take things too literally, especially typed words. If you are having problem, remember, you get what you pay for when it comes to learning from any free forum. Look at the humor side of it.

 

[Ed Westerly]

This is one reason that I love the emoticons. :biggrin: They help to soften what appears to be harsh, :clapping: and help to convey what I really want to say. Even when I'm mad or frustrated :beatup: or trying to stop something,:no: they can really put the right spin on things. But I will agree with K frei, we all do better if we consider how our words may be recieved before we type them! :thinking:

 

[Ron Jr.]

K Frie are you sure your not misunderstanding comments made by members that know each other personally? Sometimes the sarcasm can get pretty thick, like Sam said "5000+ crazy artistic types".

You elicited a strong response in me with your post so please understand I in no way wish to argue, attack or upset you here just wish to speak my opinion about criticism.

How exactly can you point out the bad things in someone's work politely? Your comment is going to be negative in nature no matter how you spin it. You gotta know the bad to know where to try and improve. While I totally agree you should be polite you should also "put your thick skin on" and be prepared to take it when you ask for criticism. I think when someone says "constructive criticism" they are actually trying to be polite and prepare you for what they know to be negative comments. It is true some people are more blunt than others but the truth of the matter is they have taken the time to comment in an effort to help. What's the saying? Actions speak louder than words.

 

[Christopher Malouf]

A lot of us know one another and correspond frequently. Many times there is a lot more going on 'behind the posts' than the posts reveal. I can see how what might seem like a fun poke between friends would clearly be taken as something else by others. All in all .... a great reminder that some things should be kept non-public by certain individuals as "who" is an important factor. Anyone who missed political correctness class in school should probably cancel their Internet account and when the Spanish Inquisition barges in here before the show ends, I prefer crucifixion. If that is too good, the rack or the comfy chair will be fine. (think Monty Python)

Recognizing and continuously being reminded of the fact I am not one of the best engravers probably disqualifies me (in the minds of most) from providing advice on a public forum. I think many have ceased to offer input for this reason. However, I also believe that if this forum were exclusively reserved for celebrities and newbies looking for tools only, it would be pretty darn boring. A ghost town. My inbox is always open and I am happy to continue to provide straightforward and honest answers and observations for any subject within the realm of engraving that will help them excel and prosper as a career engraver. I am truly grateful to those who do as they value that which is truly constructive, critical or both, as it applies to reality and not this place in fantasy land.

Take care and always wishing the best! Chris

 

[mitch]

"There Is No Such Thing As Constructive Criticism!"

I wholeheartedly disagree! Sure, the phrase/expression looks like an oxymoron or contradiction in terms, but the teaching & learning processes require explaining what's wrong (criticism), before encouraging what is right. One needs to know what NOT to do, just as much as what one SHOULD do. When you write, "you truly are building up only to then tear down.", you have that exactly backwards. When someone seeks our advice, the first step is to break any bad habits (the 'tear down' part), then follow that with 'building up' the good habits/practices. Surely most people understand that, because it's very common for someone to post a photo of their work and specifically ask us "What's wrong with this?" or "Why doesn't this design work/look right?" or words to that effect. It is absolutely incumbent upon those of us who really do want to help, to first try to correct any problems- it cannot be any other way. In fact, it would be wrong for us to allow them to continue to make mistakes without bringing it to their attention.

I know your heart is in the right place, K Frei, but only telling our online 'students' what they're doing right, without explaining what they're also doing wrong, would be doing them a disservice. And yes, having said that, maybe some could use more diplomacy, but please believe their hearts are in the right place, too.

 

[Sam]

Recognizing and continuously being reminded of the fact I am not one of the celebrity guru engravers probably disqualifies me

By the power vested in me by myself, I, Benevolent Dictator of The Engraver's Cafe, hereby confer the title of CELEBRITY GURU ENGRAVER to my esteemed colleague and friend Christopher Malouf.

Hip hip hooray!

 

[K Frei]

O.K. please don't take what i have said to mean that i don't want to know where my mistakes are, or others. the reason i left the quote in the first post is to sate that there is a right way to help someone improve.
an example of what i am saying is this... a few weeks ago there was a gentleman who wanted to know witch air-graver was the best to purchase, when it was asked why he wasn't on the Lindsey forum Sam simply said that he was welcome here and that he always would be. I'm not asking us not to have fun, poke fun, or enjoy one another's little quirks. i just think we can use some diplomacy.
if you want to know what really got this fire burning in me try reading a few post from You Might be an Engraver If,

i understand as do many others if i ask for a critique i am asking you to be critical.

 

[monk]

as the mayor of duncan avenue, i need no titular appenages, or other labels to preceed or follow my name. however, the lofty position afforded chris by our landlord, yes ! perhaps "forum philosopher" as well. as chris is, indeed, an insightful gent. i'm annointing thee, " foramus philosoficus chrissicus". don't drop the ball, chris. we need you.

 

[Haraga.com]

Frei, I don't know how that thread got you going. It was all about humor and sarcasm. Tell us which posts you are talking about specifically.

 

[Sam]

as the mayor of duncan avenue, i need no titular appenages, or other labels to preceed or follow my name. however, the lofty position afforded chris by our landlord, yes ! perhaps "forum philosopher" as well. as chris is, indeed, an insightful gent. i'm annointing thee, " foramus philosoficus chrissicus". don't drop the ball, chris. we need you.

Monk, that was brilliant. :clapping:

 

[Donny]

ALLLLLLLL HAILLLLLL "THE MALOUF" MALOUF! MALOUF! MALOUF!:bow:


Donny

P.S. Chris has been very helpful with any questions I have ever asked.

 

[Marrinan]

Sam, Do we have to call Chris "Your Guruship" or anything like that? I want to get this right now "IT" has been earned. Fred

 

[Andrew Biggs]

Fred................"Your Holy Eminent Guruship" has a better ring to it. And of course it has to be said while knuckling your forehead or doffing your cap.

 

[Marrinan]

Your Holy Eninent Guruship- Does have a certain sway da vie doesn't it. Fred

 

[Andrew Biggs]

But I will draw the line at kissing his ring

 

[Marrinan]

I only see our new Your Holy Eninent Guruship a couple of times a year so I think I can dodge that duty myself As well,if i keep a low profile.

 

[Donny]

Andrew,

I draw the line at Doffing my cap!!!! :thinking: Cuz I don't know what that means. has to be something from another country

Donny

 

[Christopher Malouf]

Alright guys .... anyone calls me that is gonna kiss my ring whether you wanna or not .. LMAO!!!

Monk ... you kill me buddy. If you added Maximus buttikiss to that I wonder if Ridley Scott could turn it into sword and sandals epic picture .... I'm certain Mel Brooks could anyway. :biggrin:

Maybe I'll stick around .... Sam is trying to get me to stop deleting my old posts. It's really official anyway .... all I gotta do now is move to Europe, change my name, and then I can come back as a Grande Guru.