is this chinese graver set any good?

[bidilover]

http://www.alibaba.com/product-gs/693593694/Graver_Max_jewelry_engraving_machine_jewelry.html

what do you think abbout this, i´m thinking this besides an used airgraver is my only option to buy with my budget... i know the quality is not that good... thanks

 

[Andrew Biggs]

These units are Chinese knock off's of the GRS Graver Max..........and they are complete junk. You would be wasting your money. I've seen and tried these at various shows.

Either save your money and buy a decent new system like a Graver Smith or a second hand unit. There are always good deals floating around with used equipment on the Buy/Sell pages of the forum.

The thing about quality is that it lasts and most of the second hand GRS equipment out there is as good as the day it was made.

Cheers
Andrew

 

[bthomas]

I agree with Andrew

GRS making good equipment...and because its good and lasts a long time it is easy to re-sell.

I owned and used a GraverMax and GRS handpiece for several years ...placed it for sale on Ebay and it sold easily the first time listed for a price only a bit less than I had paid new.

This was something like 10 years ago. Even though GRS has upgraded all their equipment and the GraverMax has been replaced in the model line up, I suspect that if I had kept using it and was selling that original GraverMax today my cost of ownership would still be similar (less than $50 /year.)

No guarantee your experience will be similar (mileage may vary) but IMO your money in one of the major recognized brands will come back rather easily if and when you want to sell.

Bill

 

[Brian Marshall]

Availability... 1,000 units per day.

That makes you think. (At least it made me do some thinking?)


Brian

 

[Eugene Carkoski]

That is the same country that produced the batteries for the Boeing dream liner.
Start with that thought before you buy it.

 

[Haraga.com]

Looks good. Buy it.

 

[monk]

like andrew said-- maybe almost 40 years ago i bought a grs gravermeister. i think it was about $425.00 back then. my wife lost her mind at such an enormous, unwarranted expense. the gravermeister works as good today as when first taken out of the box. it was thru this initial "large" purchase that i was able to build upon that purchase to do all that i do today. my wife no longer loses it when i now purchase things. she's learned the toys can generate cash ! don't be misled- there are many of the needed things that one can create without much expense. take a trip thru the forum, you'll see what i mean. just because you make something doesn't automatically mean it's junk. jmho

 

[Brian Marshall]

I've tested out one of these that a student brought by.

It seems adequate to get the job done for a beginner.

Would I buy one myself? Probably not, but I am not a student on a budget.

I used to recommend finding a used Max for entry level, but the world is indeed changin...

Sure there's a lot of Chinese made crap out there, but if ya'll haven't noticed - just like Japan did before them - they are learning, damn quick.

All of the stuff you used to think of as American made, like Black & Decker for instance - is now made there . Ya'all are still buyin' it. Why? if it's all crap?



And just to keep the record straight - where do you think ALL the alloys come from that are in those fancy 3/32" square graver blanks yer usin'?

High speed, cobalt & carbide mixes are made into 1/8" lathe tools - in CHINA.

Purchased by the folks who sell the shovels to the miners.

Sent out to be surface ground to 3/32" dimensions.... and resold with catchy names.



B.


Don't be b****in' about problems that you are contributin' to on a daily basis....

I cry and moan about it every day. But in the end if it's a viable solution - I usually buy it.

Sometimes I regret it. But not nearly as often as 10 or 20 years ago.

 

[Andrew Biggs]

Certainly not everything coming out of China is rubbish. We all have items in our homes and workshops that are made in China that are pretty good and serve their purpose well.

But these things.......they're junk.

Adequate is using a six inch nail to cut/burn a hole through a piece of wood because all the drill bits are broken and you just have one more hole to drill.........and by the time you've finished you realise that it would have been quicker to go the the harware store and by another drill bit!!

Cheers
Andrew

 

[Haraga.com]

If you can't afford it and you get talked out of buying the one from China then I would suggest that you man up and use a hammer and chisel. You won't regret it.

 

[Chujybear]

It's true. H&C is amazingly easy.
A mechanical advantage that makes life just that much more pleasant.

 

[Sam]

Large companies manufacturing in China like Black & Decker oversee production. The jewelry trade is FULL of knock-offs made in back alley hack shops. If Black & Decker wanted to build a knock-off Gravermax, they'd probably do a much better job than the hacks building them now.

Brian makes a good point about Japan. They were knock-off kings back in the day, and now their products are highly respected. Perhaps China will do the same thing.

Personally, I'd put that money toward a good used machine or as someone suggested, using a hammer & chisel until I could afford what I wanted.

 

[snake1408]

We once laughed at people who ate their food with little wooden sticks , remember the decision you make at the time is:hammer: the correct one.

 

[Memorymaker]

...... So far I hear people calling these junk and not giving any reason why. I've only seen one person posting here that has tried one and he says it's ok for a beginner. If they are junk ...... Then why are they junk? What do they do differently than the very expensive ones most here use? I just bought a used GraverMAx so I have a good one but I don't think it's fair to mark something as junk without trying it or giving reasons why. ........ Just my opinion.

That said ........ Who has used one and how did they compare

 

[JJ Roberts]

Buy American. J.J.

 

[Southern Custom]

Memorymaker,
The first person to respond to this post was Mr. Andrew Biggs who mentioned trying them at various trade shows. I'd trust the opinion of a professional who relies on good quality tools everyday to earn his living. A pneumatic system relies on the continuous, smooth delivery of air as its power source. A poorly manufactured product that can't deliver will only be an exercise in frustration. Learning to engrave is already frustrating enough without the hindrance of poor quality tools.
I keep a couple of old Gravermax units from the 80s around the shop as backups and for others to use and try. They work as well as the day they were made and can be purchased on ebay quite readily with just a bit of patience.

 

[Sam]

...... So far I hear people calling these junk and not giving any reason why. I've only seen one person posting here that has tried one and he says it's ok for a beginner. If they are junk ...... Then why are they junk? What do they do differently than the very expensive ones most here use? I just bought a used GraverMAx so I have a good one but I don't think it's fair to mark something as junk without trying it or giving reasons why. ........ Just my opinion.

That said ........ Who has used one and how did they compare

I'll be happy to answer your question. The ones I've tried at jewelry exhibitions in China, Taiwan, Hong Kong, and Thailand, all had terrible and unpredictable actuation with sudden surges as opposed to smooth acceleration. The machining of handpieces was loose and very sloppy and typical of Chinese copies. The foot pedal was a toe pedal instead of pivoting in the middle and requiring your entire foot to operate the machine, and this made operation even worse. Then there's the awful fit and finish and notorious unreliability that my Asian friends have told me about.

And consider the resale value when you're ready to upgrade. You have a product with a horrible reputation that has little or no resale value.

Nobody's bashing Chinese engraving machines for the sake of bashing. Every one I've ever tested was only fit for the trash bin.

 

[Andrew Biggs]

And don't forget the handpiece heating up quite badly and in some cases seizing up. They also have a short life if used a lot. The power range is inconsistent. Even the Chinese think they are crap after trying the real deal!!!!!!

I've also tried the Lindsay knock offs in Turkey and they are no better.

It's like anything you buy. You can get used to it. But when you try something decent like the GRS original product that actually works properly every time, day in day out............then you realise that the knock off is complete crap.

You can engrave with a rusty nail if you really set your mind to it..............But why bother. You are just making life hard for yourself.

Buy decent work tools right from the get go. Hammer, chisel, burin, pneumatic or whatever. It pays dividends in the long run.

Cheers
Andrew

 

[Timothy83]

Those last two contributions where the most helpfull of all. I have been looking at these on eBay and wondering about them for a while as a less expensive way to get started. I for one appreciate the time you took to expound on what makes them junk. Thanks. That's what makes this such a great forum.

 

[Memorymaker]

Yes ...... I agree ......... As a TOTAL newbie, I really appreciate the knowledge you guys share. Thanks for those explanations. I didn't mean you were trashing those units, I just had no frame of reference. Thank you