Question before buying a grs airsystem

[Daniel29]

Hi there,

sorry for posting this in the wrong section. But it seems the GRS section appears to be not often frequented. Thats why i thought i will try it here.

I an a hand push/hammer engraver since around 10 years and i want to buy a GRS airsystem during the next weeks. But there are a few questions i have and i havent found the right answers yet. I am from germany and even though tere are some sources to buy the tools, informations about them are rare. On question for example is .. can i sharpen the gravers for the gravermach at system without the powerhone? Sure, there are a lot of videos about sharpening. But i am confused because i dont even know what gravers should be used for the air system. It appears that hand push gravers could be sharpened with the templetes. But when sharpening the gravers for the air system they use the powerhone exclusive? So far i sharpened my gravers as we learned it back in the school and thats always worked well for me.

Where do i get punches for sculpting? Do you use specific steelrods?

Are there some tutorial dvd´s for engraving with the air system? I know Sams dvd that i will buy too. But is there also something regarding sculpting?

Greetings,

Daniel

 

[sam]

Daniel: you can sharpen with or without a power hone. A good way is to use a GRS sharpen fixture such as the Apex or EasyGraver fixture and use it ona whetstone or diamond lap. Of course a power hone makes it easier but it can be done perfectly without one.

Engravers make their own sculpting punches. They’re best made from high speed steel. You can make them from old burs, beading tools, etc.

My jewelry engraving video has a chapter on sculpting.

 

[Mike Dubber]

I agree with Sam - all engravers, using power assist or push, need to be creative when making gravers and punches. Power Hones make it easier, speed the process and increase the accuracy and repeatability, but I still make my own punches for sculpting. Beading tools make up many of the punches and chisels that I use. For heavier work, I use 5/16" drill rod to make up various punches, sculpting faces and points.

Check out Sam's Video

 

[Daniel29]

Thank you for your answers!

I sure will buy the DVD from Sam.

Regarding the punches i will be creative. The question was more about what the handpiece can hold resp. if there is a certain shape required?

 

[WMS]

I have an Apex sharpening system and it works great without using a power hone (which I also have). I use 6 inch diamond stones from Amazon (not sure whether there is a German version of that web seller) https://www.amazon.com/EZE-LAP-DD6S...694&sr=8-9&keywords=diamond+sharpening+stones to assist in keeping the mast stable, it has a tendency to tip I have glued a piece of cardboard box to the back of a piece of sheet steel which is large enough for the Apex system and the stones this way the magnetic base of the Apex holds it in place better, just as it does on he top of the power hone.

GRS's dual angle system would also be a good choice as I have also ued it in the past. And while I have not used one the Lindsey templates also should work, but I think they only work with 3/32 inch square gravers, I might be wrong about that however. And by the time you buy his stones, and a set of templates you will brobably have a comparable investment.

Gravers can also be sharpened by hand with some loss of accuracy in duplicating the precise geometry.

 

[Daniel29]

Thank you!

Now i have another question. I am starting to get confused about the compressor i need.

How many litre should the tank have to run the rotary handpiece for ground removal and the Gravermach (not at the same time)?

Since i have a small shop together with a goldsmith noise pollution is a concern. Oil compressors are as silent as possible? But my stomach tells me to not use them. I am really worried that the filter has a failure and i brick the Gravermach

Can someone give me a good compressor advice?

 

[John B.]

I have used a SilentAire 400 watt,2.15 C.U.F.M,, Model 50-15A for the last 25 years.
It is an oil compressor, quieter than a refrigerator and about a 5 gallon tank.
It has a viable oil filter and a top feed air bleeder which is hooked up to a drain bottle.
I bleed the tank at the end of each days use and have never had an oil problem.
The only repair it has ever required was replacing one leaky regulator.

 

[John B.]

Daniel 29.
If you would include your general location in your profile it would make it easier to give you advise appropriate to your area. After rereading your original post I see you are in Germany.
But this will not be available when answering your future threads.

 

[Daniel29]

Thank you!

While reading other threads it appears more people using oil compressors. But i am still a bit worried to ruin a 2000€ tool with -maybe- leaking oil through the filter.

But on the other hand i have to admit that i am far away from a person with technical understanding. I was always interrested in art and craft. How a machine works is beyond me. And the only contact i had with a compressor was a horrible noisy abomination back in the school (used for the cnc device).

Another question is regading the handpieces. The 901 seems to be an all around handpiece capable from deep to fine work. Whats the difference to the monach then? During the last years i engraved almost exclusive copperplates for printmaking. Now i want to go back to deeper engravings as well. So, what does the monach what the 901 cant do?

 

[John B.]

Thank you!

Another question is regading the handpieces. The 901 seems to be an all around handpiece capable from deep to fine work. Whats the difference to the monach then? During the last years i engraved almost exclusive copperplates for printmaking. Now i want to go back to deeper engravings as well. So, what does the monach what the 901 cant do?

Many good engraver have a favorite handpiece and use it for a majority of their work.
The only real way for you to know what suits you is to have it in your hand.
Try to get to a show where the tools are being demonstrated and try a couple.
But quite frankly ,when you get use to them any one will do a great job in a talented hand.

And remember that nearly all dentists use a "silent" oil based compressor to run their very expensive and critical tools. For many years without problems.

 

[WMS]

GRS lists this air compressor on there website, I would presume it would work well with there other equipment.
https://www.grs.com/product/004-984-220-california-air-4610ac-22050-quiet-air-compressor-220-v/

 

[Daniel29]

Its not getting easier to decide.
In this thread Artemiss says that you need a big tank to run the 850 rotary handpiece well. The 6 Gallon Val Air is close on the edge then. At least in regard to her post.

And what is the meaning behind the sticker on the compressors saying "run 15 min/off 15 min"? I thiught you use it straight for the whole working day?

 

[Dirtdigger]

It´s not as much about the tank size but more on how many liters (or gallons) can the compressor push through per minute.
15min on and 15 min off means after the compressor reaches the pressure the motor stops, it needs to sit still as many minutes- as it took to run -before it starts up again. This is so the compressor wont over heat.

 

[Daniel29]

Thank you!

But how long can you work with the Gravermach until the tank needs to be refilled?

 

[WMS]

Deleted as being in error

 

[WMS]

My apologies to those who read my previous comment which I have now deleted I was referring to the gravermeister rather than the gravermax.

 

[roentgen]

Hi, I use a Lindsay Palmcontrol and it runs eaven with small compressors because it needs less air compared with other systems. But I have heared about the Artgraver ( Jura) it works without compressor. A colleague stone setter just bought it and is happy. In Germany you can find the „Fasserschule Mach“ they use GRS and I think they also have the Artgraver. Just give them a call, I‘m sure they can help you. If you want to try the Palmcontrol please send a private message (ich wohne in Niedersachsen) Viele Grüße R

 

[Sinterklaas]

The Jura artgraver is a copy of the idea from Sergey Waltman:

If you search on Youtube for Homemade graver machine. You will find loads of videos about how to make your own. Jura has combined it with a Saeyang micromotor inside.

 

[Daniel29]

I don´t doubt that it is possible to build your own engraving machine. But i am certainly sure it will end in a desaster if i try. I prefer to loose (in the sense of spending) money instead of my health.

 

[sam]

There's nothing wrong with building your own tools if that's what you enjoy doing. For the rest of us, we want plug-and-play so we can get to work learning or doing engraving.