Tungsten vs carbide graver ?

[SalihKara]

Hi,

I have HSS graver and carbide graver.

HSS graver is very smoth and when I use it for steel it become dull in a few minutes just after I sharpen it, so I can not use HSS for steel.

Carbid graver is a lot harder than HSS and I use it for steel and I sharpen it one or two times in a week.

How about tungsten, does anyone use it ? is it a good choice for steel ?

Also, quality of the carbide graver changes time to time, I belive it is about the ingredient of the carbide, there are some different classes ( numbers ) for carbide, what is the best class ?

 

[JJ Roberts]

Salih,Never heard of any one using carbide for gravers,try a stepper face angle 50 or 55 heel 20 I like M-42 for my gravers. J.J.

 

[SalihKara]

Salih,Never heard of any one using carbide for gravers,try a stepper face angle 50 or 55 heel 20 I like M-42 for my gravers. J.J.

JJ,
Is there a little mistake in your mesaage ?
You never heard of any one using carbide or tungsten ??

I know many engraver is using carbide gravers, they are being sold at GRS as well.
http://www.grstools.com/gravers-burs-and-more/carbides

 

[JJ Roberts]

Salih,Your right my mistake tungsten,sorry I buy my graver blanks from Lindsay. J.J.

 

[tim halloran]

Salih: The graver material is tungsten carbide. Some of the better stuff today is micro grain, and Cobalt impregnated. I have had pretty good luck with with HSS even on stainless steel fire arms. I have used M42, Glen Steel, And some GRS graver steel called X-70. I also have some Cobalt impregnated high speed steel. You will have better luck if you very slightly dubb the tip of your tools.

 

[Marcus Hunt]

In my experience, ordinary carbide tends to be too brittle and I found should only be used as a graver of last resort where one really needs to try to get through a hard surface. I had some of the original GRS carbide gravers but, I found the cuts are nowhere near as clean as with say Lindsay Carbalt (tungsten-carbide) or GRS C-Max carbide and points snapped off regularly.

 

[JJ Roberts]

I like Lindsay's Carbalt for my push gravers when doing fine detail of game scenes. J.J.

 

[monk]

hss, or high speed steel should work well on anything but the hardened steels. mild steel cuts very nicely with hss gravers. perhaps your technique is part of the problem. tungsten is often alloyed with other materials in making carbide. no doubt the term, "tungsten carbide" may be a bit confusing. the only practical source of tungsten from which gravers could be fashioned, would be non-consummable tig welding electrodes. not a very good idea . these electrodes are round, and an indexing problem would arise the moment you wanted to create a graver using one.

 

[Dani Girl]

I'll second Lindsay's Carbalt or grs c-max

 

[Marcus Hunt]

The great thing about Carbalt or C-Max is I find they have a tendency to dull rather than just fracture through normal use. Put undue stress on the point cutting a tight radius and it will fracture but generally you just notice it's not cutting so well, check the point, see the bright spot, a quick resharpen and away you go.

What I found with HSS and Glensteel, etc, is the point will just let go, sometimes for no apparent reason. You don't always notice this and if you're lucky and experienced, you'll realise something's wrong before you actually start the next cut. With air assisted tools, it is possible to cut with a broken tip to the graver but the result is horrible. So, if you're going to use these types of gravers on hard metals such as steel get used to checking your point regularly especially if after 'popping the chip' you felt something strange happen. It used to take a second to do this by touching the graver to the thumb nail - if it gripped it was okay, if it slipped, resharpen.

 

[sam]

I do 95% of my work with Cmax carbide. If I'm getting a lot of point failures because of hard metal I will dub the point and see if that helps. If it doesn't, then I move to HHS (Glensteel) gravers.

Different people put different stresses on graver points. Some are heavy handed and some have a lighter touch, so what works for one might not work for another. Engravers with less experience often put more stress on gravers than those with years of experience. Kind of like the person with white knuckled tension learning to play guitar vs the experienced player whose hands glide effortlessly over the fretboard.

Graver control usually plays a very big part in how long points last.

 

[esantoro]

Due to my location in the Middle East, I need to source my tungsten-carbide blanks in China, where a different nomenclature is used. Right now I am looking at YG10X tungsten carbide, which is a micro grain tungsten-carbide related to U.S. grade C2. Another factor that would help me locate a good source is percentage of cobalt. What percentage of cobalt should I be looking for: 8%, 10%?


I am using the following site and related guides and charts to help cross-reference names and grades.
https://www.federalcarbide.com/tungsten_carbide_grade_comparison_chart.html

 

[papart1]

try www.cenntenialcarbide.com . I use the ultra fine and works pretty good for me. POLISH.....POLISH....POLISH, cuts like butta.

 

[monk]

the centenial brand was very good for me. one had to grind a flat to allow indexing for sharpening. it can only be shaped with diamond or special "green wheels". ordinary grinding wheels will not work for carbides.

 

[zzcutter]

I find that I have less tip fractures when I dip my graver in a bit oil oil.

 

[Archie Woodworth]

From my experience, (admittedly, I’m not a professional engraver, only play one on TV LOL) one of the major contributors (for me) to broken tips is lifting /dropping wrist (and shoulder) while the graver is engaged in metal and not moving forward. It seems to me the more I concentrate on locking my wrist, to
eliminate any up and down prying motion with graver the tip, it is less likely to fracture.