Finish thread all finsihes welcome

[Ray Cover]

Here is what I propose. Everyone willing can post detailed instructions on laying down (or even protecting) various finishes on engraved objects. It does not have to be limited to guns. Lets keep it open to any engraved object and any finishing technique. Everything from a satin finish on a titanium pen barrel to cold bluing on a pair of shotgun barrels.

I have Church obligations this morning but this afternoon I will try and put up a couple I use often on pens and knives. If I can get John's OK I will put his French Grey instructions here as well.

I think such a thread would be a great resource for all of us. We all have to deal with finishes in one way or another. For some it may be protecting an existing finish for others it may be how to lay down or match a finish after flushing an extensive gold inlay.

 

[pilkguns]

I think we should first make a list of various finishes, to make sure that we have them all. Although I see as I amake this that we have final finishes, such as blueing, plating, painting or bare metal, and prep finishes that will show their actual finish through the final finish.

Anyway lets see,

High polish (very glossy)

sandpaper finish(you choose final grit)

Sandblast finish

Paint finish (any color)

French Gray
a) acid created
b)blast created
c) painted and baked

White finish from glass beads

dark gray from aluminum oxide

almost black aluminum oxide on top of aluminum oxide.

Plated finish, (gold, siver, rhodium, chrome, etc)


Cold Blue, Hot Blue, Nitre Blue and Rust Blue

Color hardening
a)Tradtional heat method
c) chemically induced, multiple methods

 

[jimzim75]

Hi All,

In the Chemical division of finish pallet.
Jewellers for a long time have used:

Iodine mixed with water to get a antique yellowish brown finish. Finishing off the process
with a rouge cloth to lightly buff the surface.

Vigors gold oxidizer is use to blacken silver. Finishing off by either high polishing high points
or by using a 3m pad to achieve a muted brush finish look.

Nitric hot quench, to get a frosted white look on White gold. (Dangerous, be careful.)
This evolves 4 quiches with hot metal in high strength Nitric. Absolutely must be done
in a well ventilated room or out of doors. Not for beginners!

I will add to list after a while.

Jim

 

[Sam]

This finish was done by first blasting with glass beads, then masking off the cat and blasting the background with aluminum oxide. All blasting done with a Paasche Air Eraser. The dark aluminum oxide finish is very fragile and should be used only on showpiece items that are handled carefully. The detail was engraved after the blasting. Don't blast over fine shading! The sparkle in the cat's eyes was done by light burnishing.

This finish was done by masking off the background area and blasting the arabesque scrollwork with glass beads. The last step was final shading of the design.

 

[Joe Mason]

Sam, Both engraving look great. On the scroll work, did you apply any paint or is this natural? Thanks for sharing.

Joe

 

[Brian Hochstrat]

Sam, what are you using to mask off your areas? Brian

 

[sdcoxx]

Hobo Nickel Toner Recipe

Owen Covert, collector and engraver of hobo nickels, generously gave me this recipe.

MIX
50% circuit board etch from radio shack
50% gun bluing
1/8 soy sauce
1/2 plug chewing tobacco

Use sharpie permanent marker to outline artwork

Apply toner with Q-tip
Rub toner into engraving with grey scotch brite
Quickly remove with tissue
Optional.... use 4/0 steel wool to highlight
Optional.... use 3m polishing paper to highlight

Experiment with the recipe and make it your own.

 

[Ray Cover]

Here is another one I recently finished. Its been the year fo the gun for me this year. I have done more guns this year than int he past five I think.

Anyway here is a rundown of the process I used. to get the selective French Grey.

1. First the gold inlay, engraving, and bluing were done.
2. The areas I wanted to protect were masked off.
3. I used a pen plater to put a few volts of electric current through the bluing stripper. I use birchwood casey stripper. The current speeds up the stripping process and saves a considerable amount of time on a project like this.
4. Once the stripping is done I clean off the mask material.

There a few different things you can use to mask off the protected areas. I have used Dykem layout fluid and I have also used a soft etching ground like intaglio printers use. It is basically a mixture of asphaltum and beeswax. I also have know people to use clear tape. I have never tried the tape because I don't trust the acid to stay out from under the tape.


http://st03.startlogic.com/~rcoveren/sample12.jp

 

[Ray Cover]

Here is a project I am currently working on. It is a dagger sheath made of 410 stainless.
The surface of this will need to be re finished after flushing the gold. Here is the process I use.

1. First the design is cut and the gold inlaid.

2. The gold is them chisseled down semi flush with a brass or Nickel Silver graver. This graver is made by hammering the end of a 1/8" brass or Nickel silver rod to a taper to work harden the business end. Then put a 45 face and a 15 heel on this end of the graver. The reason brass or NS is used is because they are hard enough to cut the 24K gold but not hard enough to make gouges in the steel around the gold inlay.
The gold is shaved down so its just a hair bit proud.

3. I then burnish the gold to make sure any little corners and such are filled

4. Once that is done I use a ceramic stone (Amayak Stepanyan turned me on to these) to flush the gold on down. I like these ceramic stones for two reasons. First they don't load and cause tear outs int eh gold near as badly as others I have tried. second they don't take the softer gold down faster than the harder steel leaving a dish in the inlay. This is what I am working on in the first photo below. I use a stick to hold the stones and I attach them with a couple pieces of heat shrink tubing. On a job like this I can start with 800 grit ceramic stone.

5. Now that the gold is flush I start with a 800 grit wet or dry paper to even out the surface finish ( see the bottom photo below). Now I will take out the background in the scroll.

6. I lay down whatever final finish is required for the job. It is important to match the finish that is already on the other parts of the project. If you are refinishing the whole thing you can finish to the customers request.

7. Then I will do the final shading and details on the engraving.

 

[dclevinger]

Ray,
Are the stones that you are using from Gesswein? If so, do you recall the part number? Thanks.
David

 

[Ray Cover]

David,

There a few different brands of them. Xebec is one brand I think the ones Gesswein carries are called supra ceramic stones. As far as remembering the part number, Most days I can barely remember my own phone number.

Ray

 

[Sam]

Gotta hand it to you, Ray. This is shaping up to be an excellent thread and one for the Archives. / ~Sam

 

[Ray Cover]

Here are John's instructions for french grey finish. I filed this away a long time ago but I think it would be beneficial to others as well. I got an email from John earlier saying he is out for the next couple weeks so I am posting this here on presumption of his kindness and grace. John, if you don't want this posted here let me know and I'll delete it.

"FRENCH GRAY METHOD" BY JOHN K. BARRACLOUGH.

THE BASIC PRODUCT THAT I USE IS REFERED TO IN THE AUTOMOBILE
REFINISHING TRADE AS "BODY PREP" OR "STEEL PREP". THE SPECIFIC
PRODUCT THAT I PURCHASE IS MADE BY DU PONT COMPANY AND IS LABELED
"STEEL REFINISHING SYSTEM", "STEP B"*5718-S “CONVERSION COATING" +
THERE ARE OTHER BRANDS BUT I KNOW THAT THIS. ONE DOES THE JOB FOR ME.
THE PRODUCT IS OBTAINED FROM AN AUTOMOTIVE PAINT SUPPLY STORE IN A
PLASTIC BOTTLE, .946 LITER SIZE FOR ABOUT $20.00-$25.00.
NORMAL CARE SHOULD BE EXERSIZED IN THE USE OF THIS PRODUCT. READ
THE LABEL. FOR OUR PURPOSE THE PRODUCT CAN BE REUSED MANY TIMES
SO POUR IT BACK INTO THE ORIGINAL CONTAINER CAREFULLY AFTER USE.
POUR ENOUGH MATERIAL TO COVER THE PARTS TO BE GRAYED INTO A NON-
METALLIC CONTAINER, I USE A LARGE PYREX MEASURING CUP WITH A
POURING LIP AS IT IS EASY TO REPOUR THE PRODUCT INTO THE BOTTLE.
FIX A STEEL WIRE TO EACH PART SO THAT IT DOES NOT HAVE TO BE
HANDLED DIRECTLY. CLEAN EACH PART BY DIPPING IT INTO LACQUER THINNER AND ALLOW
IT TO AIR DRY.
NEXT, DIP EACH PART INTO THE BODY PREP AND LET IT SIT UNDER THE
SURFACE OF THE FLUID FOR ABOUT ONE OR TWO MINUTES.
RAISE PART BY THE WIRE AND CHECK IT’S COLOR. CHECK IT AGAINST A
PIECE OF UNTREATED METAL
WHEN IT TURNS A NICE LIGHT GRAY, STOP THE ACTION BY IMMERSING
IT IN CLEAN COOL WATER
TAKE THE PART OUT OF THE WATER BATH, HOLDING IT BY THE ATTACHED WIRE.
DRY IT WITH A WARM AIR HAIR DRYER. MAKE SURE YOUR PART
IS GRAY ALL OVER AND AS DARK AS YOU WANT IT. DO NOT BE CON-
CEREND ABOUT A SLIGHTY CLOUDY FINISH, IT WILL CLEAR UP WITH
THE FOLLOWING STEPS.
AT THIS STAGE, WHILE THE PART IS STILL WARM, IT SHOULD BE
DIPPED INTO A SEALANT TO PROTECT THE FINISH.
THE SEALANT SHOULD BE MIXED, TESTED AND CONTAINED IN AIR TIGHT JAR,
AND BE ON HAND EEFORE STARTING THE FINISHING PROCESS.
MIX THIS IN A SCREW TOP JAR, SHAKE AND TEST BEFORE EACH
USE, KEEP IT THINNED DOWN AS NEEDED.
TO MAKE THE SEALANT SOLUTION, HALF FILL THE JAR WITH CLEAN
ACETONE AND ADD ABOUT A TABLESPOON OF SPAR VARNISH.
DO NOT USE PLASTIC VARNISH; USE THE OLD FASHONED ROSEN TYPE.
SHAKE TO MIX, TEST AS FOLLOWS.
TO TEST THE SEALANT MIX.
HOLD THE BACK OF YOUR HAND OUT IN GOOD LIGHT AND NOTICE THE TEXTURE AND LIGHT THAT
REFLECTS FROM IT. DIP A FINGER INTO THE MIX AND MAKE A QUICK
SWIPE ON THE BACK OF THE OUTSTRECHED HAND. THE WARMTH OF YOUR
HAND WILL IMMEDIATLY FLASH OFF THE ACETONE AND LEAVE A VERY
LIGHT DEPOSIT OF VARNISH WHICH YOU WILL SEE AS A SLIGHT SHINY
STRIPE ON THE BACK OF YOUR HAND. IF YOU DONT HAVE A STRIPE MIX A
LITTLE MORE VARNISH IN AND TEST ON A DIFFERENT PART OF YOUR SKIN.

AFTER GRAYING AND WITH THE PART STILL WARM FROM THE DRYER AND BEING HANDLED ONLY
BY THE WIRE, DIP IT INTO THE SEALANT MIX. REMOVE AND REDRY THE PART IN THE AIR.
HANG BY THE WIRE UNTIL FULLY DRY, 24 HOURS IF TIME PERMITS.
APPLY INK TO THE ENGRAVING TO BRING OUT THE DETAIL. REMOVE
THE EXCESS INK FROM THE FLAT AREAS WITH CLOTH DAMPENED WITH ALCOHOL.
AVOID FLOODING THE SURFACE, WIPE SEVERAL TIME WITH A JUST DAMP CLOTH.
LIGHTLY POLISH ANY DIMENSIONAL GOLD OR SILVER INLAYS WITH A SOFT ERASER,
STAY STRICTLY ON THE INLAY.
SIT BACK AND ENJOY YOUR HANDWORK.

 

[PS_Bond]

I've been using a somewhat unsubtle stipple on some jewellery recently. Found the instructions on Ganoksin somewhere: All you do is take e.g. a Foredom hammer handpiece tip, drill and flush mount a small (think I used 1.8mm) diamond, pavillion out, to form a point. The stipple it gives is very bright and facetted - the diamond leaves a very polished indent which catches the light at various angles. It's also a swine to photograph. The downside to using it - so far - is that even tapering the handpiece tip down hasn't left me with a particularly narrow tip (possibly 2.5mm with a short taper due to the diamond) which can make it difficult to get into tight areas.

I usually engrave a border, stipple the area and go back & recut the border to make sure that it isn't left in a deformed state.

 

[fegarex]

I might add a couple of hints to the French Gray process that I have used. I seem to get spots or splotches in the gray. A lot of people even things out with a pink pearl eraser but I have found Brownell's Triple F stock rubbing compound works well. This rubbing compound is an oil based compound. I think its original use was for cleaing print rollers on printing presses but does a good job of removing any spots and evening out the color. Now.. I don't know if this will work with John's process dipping in the oil.

 

[Ray Cover]

Rex,

What are you using to apply and rub the compound? Q-tip or a stick maybe?

Ray

 

[fegarex]

Just a soft cloth. I'm talking more about an "overall" French Gray vs a select deblue.
This stuff is like a rubbing compound but has some sort of oil base and works better on metals. Thtere may be similar products out there, I just happen to try this stuff because I had it. You would need more than a Q-tip to do any good.

 

[mcrapo]

After a French Grey is done, does that not remove the protection that the bluing created?

If so what do you do to protect the gun from rust? Or does the owner need to keep the gun well oiled for protection?

Thanks
Mike

 

[Ray Cover]

From JJ Roberts

Ray..I havn't tried John's formula for French Gray, but have used Marty Rabino's formula which consists of
Lysol Toliet Bowl Cleaner neutralized the area with baking soda and water. I found good results, and the customer was happy. Keep up the good work.

Yours truly,
JJ Roberts
Manassas, VA
School of Artistic Engraving
Reply With Quote

 

[Bill Brockway]

Here is a homemade French Gray that I showed in the Knife Network board some time ago. Works pretty much like the other rust remover methods, except you rust blue the gun first, and then partially remove the blue.

I rust blued the gun, using Laurel Mountain Forge browner and degreaser, rusted it in a sweat box, boiled the parts to turn them black, and carded with steel wool under water. After the blue is dark enough (5 or 6 cycles), it should be a deep black color. After the final carding, the blackened parts are dipped in Brownell's "Steel-White" for 15 to 30 minutes, diluted as recommended on the bottle, which fades the black, leaving a slightly matte surface from the blueing. The only tricky part is timing the "Steel-white" dip. You may have to experiment with the timing. The "Steel-White" loosens the black oxide coating, after which you can rub the finish down with a nubby cloth, like a bath towel, or old blue jeans, to get a uniform gray color. Oil it, and you're in business.







It's a little involved, but gives a good degree of patination.

Bill