Question: GRS Dual Angle Sharpening Fixture

tinkerSue

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Hello All!
I have been lurking for a super long time now and virtually all of my questions have been asked and answered many times. Thank you! :bow:
I am learning how to hand-push engrave with a class consisting of me and myself...taught by I. The teacher is okay but doesn't really know what's good and/or bad until it is tested by the three of us.
I have been a metalsmith for about 10 years now and, for my birthday, my awesome brother put some moola on my account at RioGrande.com to "buy something I've wanted but wouldn't get for myself". I have been ogling the GRS Dual-Angle Sharpening Fixture. I have been using a Crocker that I futzed with to get it to kind of work but I have a difficult time getting the heels sharpened consistently. I cannot afford a power hone and will be using it with a couple of diamond hones, and finishing with a ruby stone, that I purchased on eBay.
I have read that others have said you can use the fixture without a power hone. Must my diamond and Ruby stones be the same level? Does one calibrate the fixture to the stone level? Once set up, do I just swivel the graver on the stone? I use GRS QC holders with Glensteel gravers. Are these gravers the best for silver and copper? I am going to buy the QC adaptors for the fixture as well. Are there instructions included with the fixture and/or QC adaptors for proper usage? I find most jeweler's tools do not come with instructions :confused:.
I really enjoy the "zen" feeling I get while engraving and even in my limited experience I can tell/feel that my inconsistent sharpening is a problem.
Thank you for your assistance and patience.
I look forward to reading your answers/comments. :graver:
 

Riflesmith

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Good questions! Your honing stones and your DA sharpener base need to be on the same flat surface and as long as the top of your stone is flat and level you shouldn't have any problem. B/c of the moving parts of the DA it would be best to hold it still and move the stone to sharpen your gravers. There are instructions that come with the DA. Best of luck.
 
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#3
Get with someone and learn how to hand sharpen ! You will be miles ahead with a few simple instructions.
Also, ALL of your stones need to be at the same level or each time you move to a different height stone you will change the previously sharpened surface.
 

Bob A

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Nice! Only thought I might add would be that it *could* be simpler move the stone and hold the GRS setup steady once the graver is vertically addressed to the stone.

The level of the stone to the GRS fixture, and the length of the graver in the GRS fixture, isn't a factor because of the vertical axis of the fixture, which will mostly result in the same angle - unlike the Crocker or Lindsey setups, which require much more calculation. I think my Crocker may still be embedded in the other side of the workshop.

Bob
 

fegarex

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I use one in my other studio without a power hone and just swing the tool back and forth on the post with the stones fixed. Works fine until I need to reshape then it is out to the other studio and the power hone.
 

diandwill

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sam

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Also, ALL of your stones need to be at the same level or each time you move to a different height stone you will change the previously sharpened surface.
This is not the case if you're using the GRS Dual Angle sharpener. It has a tool post so the graver angles are not affected by different stone heights like they would be with templates or a Crocker fixture.
 

monk

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i use the dual angler and other systems as well. the grs dual angler DOES NOT require that the stones be the same height. only that they be flat. the dual angle head moves up & down on a post, and doesn't care about stone height. you can use without a power hone. just takes longer. if you have a dreml or similar rotary, you can do your initial roughout that way, and just finish with the grs. once the basic geometry is established, resharpening or touchup goes rather quickly
 
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I use a 'Workshop, WS2000" sharpening motor to rough out gravers and hand finish them. The WS2000 was only around $100, the RPM are many, many times higher than power hones and there's no speed adjustment so they don't seem to be to popular around this camp but it's fine for what I do, which isn't much.
 

tinkerSue

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Thank you for taking the time to post your comments. This place is the best for engraving tips, information and assistance.
Since my original post, it has been brought to my attention that GRS makes TWO dual-angle sharpening fixtures. The first being the style available at Riogrande.com (where my bday money is itchin' to be spent):
https://www.riogrande.com/Product/GRS-Dual-Angle-Sharpening-Fixture/118173
and the second style available at GRS.com (where I have no moola) :-( :
https://grs.com/product/003-580-quick-change-sharpening-fixture/
My question:
Is it true that the "Rio" GRS fixture can be used as is with the QC holder still attached to the graver? Or is it necessary to buy the QC adaptors (see link):
https://www.riogrande.com/Product/GRS-Quick-Change-Locking-Adapter-Kit-for-Graver-Sharpening/118693
If I don't buy the QC fixture adaptors for use with the "Rio" GRS fixture, does it hold the actual graver with the QC graver adaptor is still attached or do I have to remove the graver from its adaptor.
After pondering the differences, it would appear that the Rio GRS fixture is more useful as it can be used to sharpen any kind of graver, QC or not whereas the fixture available on the GRS site is for use with QC gravers only.
I have gone the route of hand sharpening, home made jigs, Crocker, Eclipse and K&D itsy bitsy graver jigs. Now that I actually have an opportunity to get a decent fixture I want to spend my gift wisely. I have plenty of time and patience to learn...it is my frustration level that comes up short. I am starting to "feel the way of" the graver and I want to make sure that what I am beginning to get a feel for is the thing I should be feeling! Oh boy...that doesn't sound right.
To answer each post:
@riflesmith/Richard: Thank you for the info. I will keep in mind the "move stone" vs. "move fixture".
@atexascowboy2011: While I am certain I would learn faster (and correctly the first time around), I not only don't have the money for said instruction but I must limit my exposure to people, places, groups. I have a drastically lowered immune system response from cancer treatment and invisible little bugs find me highly attractive.
@BobA: That is great news to my ears! I can't quite throw my Crocker with enough strength to embed it but I do plan on giving it a little place of its own in the dustbin of forgotten tools.
@fegarex: That is what I am hoping to achieve! I have an old school PDQ Gem Drill that I picked up on eBay. It can be used like a drill press or rotated and used like a bench grinder. Here it is: https://instagram.com/p/9KsZ0CqlU9/
@diandwill: Thank you for the additional info on the 120° EasyGraver. I am still learning and experiencing various graver geometries and I don't want to limit myself to one style. You are right about the money saving bonus, though!
@sam: Thank you for clarification regarding stone levels. Your work is an inspiration! Not that others here are not...they are! I just happened to see your work first and the design work is absolutely stunning.
@monk: Good to hear about the stone height. I have the PDQ Drill mention above as well as an old dremel set up as a drill press and a few Foredom flex shafts. An SR Series motor is used for a variety of jobs, a GG Series with reduction gear for my hammer handpiece and a 1/15hp Pfingst pendant motor attached to my Wolf Belt Sander. I used to work full time and have "fun money" to spend on my metalsmithing addiction. I am no longer in such a position monetarily so I am trying to spend wisely. I always find it hard to pass up a good deal on an old tool.
@davegibson: Thank you. Hopefully, I can make do with the menagerie of tools I have collected through years of smithing.

That was long so thanks to all for sticking with me!
Tink
 

fegarex

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#11
You want the Dual Angle fixture. The QC adapters are handy and required for round gravers but you don't need them for square gravers. You can sharpen a graver with or without a QC adapter with the fixture. The QC adapters just make it faster. The Dual Angle fixture is of course also available from GRS
DUAL ANGLE FIXTURE
They have an informed sales staff that can answer your questions as well.
 

tinkerSue

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Fegarex: Thank you for the clarification regarding the various fixtures. I will go with the dual-angle "non-QC only) fixture. I would purchase directly from GRS but my moola is in my account at RioGrande. It was a gift from my bro for my bday.
 

monk

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Thank you for taking the time to post your comments. This place is the best for engraving tips, information and assistance.
Since my original post, it has been brought to my attention that GRS makes TWO dual-angle sharpening fixtures. The first being the style available at Riogrande.com (where my bday money is itchin' to be spent):
https://www.riogrande.com/Product/GRS-Dual-Angle-Sharpening-Fixture/118173
and the second style available at GRS.com (where I have no moola) :-( :
https://grs.com/product/003-580-quick-change-sharpening-fixture/
My question:
Is it true that the "Rio" GRS fixture can be used as is with the QC holder still attached to the graver? Or is it necessary to buy the QC adaptors (see link):
https://www.riogrande.com/Product/GRS-Quick-Change-Locking-Adapter-Kit-for-Graver-Sharpening/118693
If I don't buy the QC fixture adaptors for use with the "Rio" GRS fixture, does it hold the actual graver with the QC graver adaptor is still attached or do I have to remove the graver from its adaptor.
After pondering the differences, it would appear that the Rio GRS fixture is more useful as it can be used to sharpen any kind of graver, QC or not whereas the fixture available on the GRS site is for use with QC gravers only.
I have gone the route of hand sharpening, home made jigs, Crocker, Eclipse and K&D itsy bitsy graver jigs. Now that I actually have an opportunity to get a decent fixture I want to spend my gift wisely. I have plenty of time and patience to learn...it is my frustration level that comes up short. I am starting to "feel the way of" the graver and I want to make sure that what I am beginning to get a feel for is the thing I should be feeling! Oh boy...that doesn't sound right.
To answer each post:
@riflesmith/Richard: Thank you for the info. I will keep in mind the "move stone" vs. "move fixture".
@atexascowboy2011: While I am certain I would learn faster (and correctly the first time around), I not only don't have the money for said instruction but I must limit my exposure to people, places, groups. I have a drastically lowered immune system response from cancer treatment and invisible little bugs find me highly attractive.
@BobA: That is great news to my ears! I can't quite throw my Crocker with enough strength to embed it but I do plan on giving it a little place of its own in the dustbin of forgotten tools.
@fegarex: That is what I am hoping to achieve! I have an old school PDQ Gem Drill that I picked up on eBay. It can be used like a drill press or rotated and used like a bench grinder. Here it is: https://instagram.com/p/9KsZ0CqlU9/
@diandwill: Thank you for the additional info on the 120° EasyGraver. I am still learning and experiencing various graver geometries and I don't want to limit myself to one style. You are right about the money saving bonus, though!
@sam: Thank you for clarification regarding stone levels. Your work is an inspiration! Not that others here are not...they are! I just happened to see your work first and the design work is absolutely stunning.
@monk: Good to hear about the stone height. I have the PDQ Drill mention above as well as an old dremel set up as a drill press and a few Foredom flex shafts. An SR Series motor is used for a variety of jobs, a GG Series with reduction gear for my hammer handpiece and a 1/15hp Pfingst pendant motor attached to my Wolf Belt Sander. I used to work full time and have "fun money" to spend on my metalsmithing addiction. I am no longer in such a position monetarily so I am trying to spend wisely. I always find it hard to pass up a good deal on an old tool.
@davegibson: Thank you. Hopefully, I can make do with the menagerie of tools I have collected through years of smithing.

That was long so thanks to all for sticking with me!
Tink
easy to make a power hone. any ole dc motor will suffice. such as from a retired treadmill. the dc motor can vary the speed to suit. i made one from an old dc tape transport motor, and an adjustable power supply.
 
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