Question: Looking for engraver

[Charlie]

Isaac,

this is not like shopping at "Walmart".

There is an old saying, "if you have to ask, you cant afford it".

What some of these customers pay the "Master" engraver is really none of our business. It is a private thing between the customer and engraver.

I am suprised you threw that 100 dollar an hour out there like you did.

Some of these "Masters" wake up in the morning with their engraving job on their mind, and when they go to sleep at night, they are still thinking about it. They work a full year to complete a job, but this is their passion, and their life. Their hourly rate is rather small when you think about it, I venture to say it's not nearly 100 dollars an hour.

 

[bobkeyes]

Chris,

I don't mind telling everyone what I get for engraving. ZERO, NOTHING, NADA! But, then that's what my engraving is worth.

Your engraving is beautiful. I have admired it since the day I started looking at the forums.

I don't know if you'll ever be rich or famous, but I say stick to your guns. What you do is great in my eyes.

 

[Harpuahound]

Nothing wrong with keeping your private business private. I respect that. But as a jeweler and six year engraver who just bought my own equipment for my personal use and profit. Its extremely helpful and benificial to hear engravers of all levels talk about the finances of engraving. Because it may not be the reason we engrave but it can be the enabler. I learn a lot here in the forum that i couldnt or wouldnt learn otherwise. That includes engraving, customer relations, and finance. Thats more than i signed up for. Thanks guys.

 

[ExoticChoppers]

Hey all,
I'd like to thank everyone that responded to the post and even stopped into the shop, way more than i expected. I have to add here... I'm not sure, but i think its a good guess on my part that doing large scroll on aluminum/brass/mild steel might be different than doing tiny scroll in gold, stainless or what have you. Please ask your experienced peers, ex-teachers, or mentors, i don't know. If you have never tried large scroll in aluminum, please buy a small inexpensive piece from Lowes, Home depot, Ace... Also people are requesting reference shots, i don't want to post someones work w/o permission nor do i know if its against forum rules... either way, Google- otto carver engraver, cj allen engraver, chris malouf, tey herrera engraver(WOW) . They have all done motorcycle work.
Another thing I'd like to address is the PR... I see some have websites, some don't even have that. I know the Custom Motorcycle Market, I can lead (motorcycle) people to you but not many "consumers" will contact you when there is no address location or phone #, m/c shops maybe, just my opinion, ask your experienced peers (preferably someone doing motorcycles).
It may be engraving, but this is the "Custom Motorcycle Market".
Thank You,
Paul

 

[richard hall]

Paul, you joined us for a reason I hope !!! If you learn to engrave; then you wouldnt have to look around for alot of help...Learning to engrave yourself and seeing first hand of whats all involved, you will get to see where everyone is coming from. They make things look easy, but one thing for sure; ITS FUN !!!!!!!!!And welcome .......

 

[ExoticChoppers]

If it was easy, it would not be cool...

Thank you Richard

-Paul

 

[Christopher Malouf]

Chris,

I don't mind telling everyone what I get for engraving. ZERO, NOTHING, NADA! But, then that's what my engraving is worth.

C'mon Bob ... no-one's work is worth nothing. I don't if I should laugh or cry 'cause I know exactly what you are thinking. You can either beat yourself down or beat yourself up. I choose to do the latter 'cause that's what inevitably creates all the drive to get better. Set goals and compete with yourself. Much of the work you see here on these forums is 1% of 1% of the work that's being done across the world. This is not reality and it is unrealistic to compare yourself, your style and your work to what is seen here. If I did, I would go absolutely insane. What IS reality, is realizing your own potential and unlocking it by using the forum as just another learning tool. With that in perspective, it's a heckofa lot easier to plan and tackle your next achievement.

When I read the compliments, I have to simply say thank-you and then ultimately dismiss them because it is time to beat myself "up" again ... Identify what needs improvement, correct the mistakes, set new goals and push forward. Anyone can do it. It amounts to nothing more than time and pressure.

Take care, Chris

 

[Neo Dutch]

Broadway Choppers now have an "in house" engraver. He's done CJ's course.

 

[isaac]

Its like Harp said the board is here to learn, and pricing is an important part of the skill. I wasn't looking to see if I could afford the work, I am trying to do the work.

I understand that there are many levels of work quality and therefor the question isn't really a fair one.

I think I got carried away cause I know Maloufs work and its very nice, so doing it for so little surprised me.

Like I said I'm not trying to ruffle any feathers here just have some open discussion on the forum.

Here is my pocket watch that Ive been working on, the goal inlay needs more work. The rest isn't great but its where my ability's are at now.

 

[SharpGraver]

Isaac
is this an example of $100.00 per hour engraving?

 

[Christopher Malouf]

Like I said I'm not trying to ruffle any feathers here just have some open discussion on the forum.

Let's open it up then. Sooo how many engravers are making a "below poverty line" wage????? I believe that's what you called it.

Last I checked, $50 bucks hour was $100,000 per year. I'd say I'm in very good company with a lot of engravers. Your sense of reality is warped Spike.

 

[D.DOUGLAS]

David, He didn't say he charged 100.00 an hour for engraving. Thats what he would charge for his cad cam service if the job was accepted. Im sure most people have to work up the ladder but i do not think 100.00 an hour is out of the question being all the time and money involved learning this art.

 

[richard hall]

Issac; nice work... I beleive you should charge according to your skills; location also has alot to enter into it, as some spots have lower incomes than others; [Ohio verus say California] If you over-charge-----they wont come back to your doorsteps; and everyone here is trying to survive another day !!!!

 

[Christopher Malouf]

Doug,


The only way a full time engraver is going to make a consistent $100 bucks per hour is if he wakes up one day and is Winston Churchill or if he is very proficient at letter engraving. Location has very little to do with it as I'm sure that most engravers rarely get anything other than jewelry work from their local market.

Hanging out in these forums, you see more work from the celebrity engravers then you do from the average guy. You're seeing a tiny segment of the best of the best. This is not reality and while I'm on the subject of reality ... neither is all the butt patting for work that needs improvement. Telling someone that $100 bucks per hour is a possibility is just flat out unrealistic. Getting that price for very specialized work is another story but unlikely in engraving.

 

[Gargoyle]

Last I checked, $50 bucks hour was $100,000 per year.

When you're employed for a company, yes. But the numbers don't compute that way if you're self employed, unless you can also bill the client for meeting time, equipment setup and repair time, time spent sweeping the shop floor, time spent marketing the business, time spend doing your accounting, doing design research, changing burnt out light bulbs, changing the compressor oil, sharpening tools, etc., etc... Otherwise, if you work a typical self employed persons 2800 hours a year (9 hours per day, six days a week, 52 weeks a year, no holidays or vacations) you'd be lucky to get 1400 hours a year of billable time, or $70k.

From that $70k gross, you have to subtract rent, insurance, tools, supplies, utilities, ....

 

[D.DOUGLAS]

Chris the key word is consistent. Yes i doubt you will get that 40 hours a week but i bet there times when you can sprinkle that figure in with no problem if talent and the right job comes along. I agree 50.00 is more realistic but on occasion.

 

[Christopher Malouf]

Yeah yeah ..... and the 28 mile roundtrip to the UPS drop off center to send out customer stuff while stopping at Wally's World of Pacific Rim Imports to get paper for the printer .... etc .. etc.

Running your own business is a 24/7 job, even going out to get a twinkie has to have multiple targets of opportunity along the way to squeeze every last hour out of a day. Especially when living in a "geographical oddity". :big grin:
---------

You're right Doug, and it is those sporadic moments over $100 bucks that make up for the miscalculations in time estimates, hardness of gun metal .... impurities in casted items ......

That's where there has to be a sufficient amount of "predictable" bread and butter work.

 

[isaac]

NO NO NO that was not an example of 100/hr work.

Ive been engraving for only 3 years at best. It was just a watch that I own and been working on.

For me the point is that I couldnt get enough money for it (engraving) to make it worth my while as yet, but I keep on practicing and hopefuly I will get good enough to charge what I need to make per hr to survive.

Im a jeweler/diamond setter and can easily make 100/hr in that trade and thats doing wholsale trade work NOT TO THE PUBLIC, so I cant rationalize doing engraving in that same time for 1/3 the price, I will out source it.

 

[Christopher Malouf]

Spike (Isaac) ... don't worry about ruffling feathers. I don't wear them anyway. You did get a good discussion going.

Engraving is not something I got into for the money. I'd go back to contract network/systems installation and support if that's all that mattered. There's something to be said for the "repair" and fixit work that keep the world running but one day I got out of bed and realized that the only time people know I'm alive is when something wasn't working. By the time I left Boston, what wouldn't fit in the pickup went in the dumpster.

You're in the best position you can possibly be in, you can work on your engraving skills without sacrificing the conveniences and luxuries afforded to you by your high-end bread and butter skills. Unlike any other career field, you can supplement that work with your own engraving and one day make that work even more valuable.

The reality that I spoke of is the fact that many have come from someplace else. Paid our dues hard in a completely unrelated field to start over and go through it all again.

Nobody should get discouraged about engraving as a career. It is a labor of love and an addiction sometimes worth taking a beating financially to achieve a higher level of perfection. The gamble is that it is in the hope that it leads to future success .... but that goes without saying for anyone that is self employed - like the bakery down the road.

If I can ever help anyone out, I will (and have). Like guys like Ron Nott, Jason M, I do it for nothing because it makes absolutely no sense to let it get buried 6 feet under with me.

All the best, this topic has got me all wore out and there's still yesterday's work to get done.

Chris

 

[Ken Hurst]

Chris --- I have been scratching guns & etc. for 51 years as of this summer past. I am in total agreement with you as you sound as if you've been in the trade as long as I have.