Question: Looking for engraver
- Thread starter ExoticChoppers
- Start date
ExoticChoppers
Member
Kevin P., i agree... But, Markets dont find you, its about hard work, hustle, chance, networking and PR. Unless your in a established family biz
Issac, nobody's 'dumping' on this guy. I started at the end of this thread.
I just went back and read all the responses. It's just truth telling time.
No one knows this guy when he's home with his family; we just know what he's posted.
I would say if he's making a good product he should pay Chris his price and get work that he'd be proud to have on his bikes.
You only get quality if you're willing to pay for it.
Most of the posters have had hard earned 'life' lessons which they're sharing.
It pays to be a bit cynical.
I've had long experience making and selling jewelry.
People who ask for special prices are generally 'losers'; I can't say this applies to the field of engraving; I'm a novice here. And I only know what this dude posted; I've never met him.
Kevin P.
I just went back and read all the responses. It's just truth telling time.
No one knows this guy when he's home with his family; we just know what he's posted.
I would say if he's making a good product he should pay Chris his price and get work that he'd be proud to have on his bikes.
You only get quality if you're willing to pay for it.
Most of the posters have had hard earned 'life' lessons which they're sharing.
It pays to be a bit cynical.
I've had long experience making and selling jewelry.
People who ask for special prices are generally 'losers'; I can't say this applies to the field of engraving; I'm a novice here. And I only know what this dude posted; I've never met him.
Kevin P.
Chris, that's some really FINE work on the bike parts, man!! 
You're definitely taking this to a high level. / ~Sam
You're definitely taking this to a high level. / ~SamThose covers are SWEET Chris. Hope to see the completed bike.
Paul - as Ray Cover mentioned, it would be helpful if you could provide some specifics on what you are looking for. What parts, what timeframe?
I do not have any experience on bike parts yet, but I planned to eventually get there.
I am still honing my skills.
Paul - as Ray Cover mentioned, it would be helpful if you could provide some specifics on what you are looking for. What parts, what timeframe?
I do not have any experience on bike parts yet, but I planned to eventually get there.
I am still honing my skills.
Andrew Biggs
Moderator
Hi Paul and welcome to the forum.
Sometimes you have to take a bit of a punt to get things kick started. A leap of faith if you like tinged with a bit of pragamatism.
That's how I got started with the watches I engrave. An e-mail enquiry from my web site, a couple of spec peices and lots of communication. A period between the engraver and the seller to get to know one another and check each other out. Building the relasionship is very important for both parties.
Sometimes it works out and sometimes it dosn't. But if we only stick to things in life that are guaranteed then we won't get very far. Don't be afraid to give these things a go. You have to open doors to see what's behind them and quite often one thing leads to another..................... Fortune favours the bold!!!
Chris..............wonderful work on the bike parts!!!
Cheers
Andrew
Sometimes you have to take a bit of a punt to get things kick started. A leap of faith if you like tinged with a bit of pragamatism.
That's how I got started with the watches I engrave. An e-mail enquiry from my web site, a couple of spec peices and lots of communication. A period between the engraver and the seller to get to know one another and check each other out. Building the relasionship is very important for both parties.
Sometimes it works out and sometimes it dosn't. But if we only stick to things in life that are guaranteed then we won't get very far. Don't be afraid to give these things a go. You have to open doors to see what's behind them and quite often one thing leads to another..................... Fortune favours the bold!!!
Chris..............wonderful work on the bike parts!!!
Cheers
Andrew
Exotic choppers, I'd list differently: talent, skill, determination; putting yourself and your work out there so you can be discovered. And patience.
I've been earning my living for about 25 years as a lapidary and jeweler doing one offs mostly; never worked for an employer in those years, and am still doing it. No one in my family ever did anything in the arts or crafts.
It's a very, very small group and not for everyone. Each person I've talked to has a very involved story to tell of how they managed to succeed.
Kevin P.
I've been earning my living for about 25 years as a lapidary and jeweler doing one offs mostly; never worked for an employer in those years, and am still doing it. No one in my family ever did anything in the arts or crafts.
It's a very, very small group and not for everyone. Each person I've talked to has a very involved story to tell of how they managed to succeed.
Kevin P.
Christopher Malouf
~ Elite 1000 Member ~
Thanks guys ... these rockers were posted in my photo gallery for awhile. The customer changed his mind about chrome plating them and sent them back to me. Glad I got them plated too .... just wish the sun would stay out long enough to get a good bling photo.
Paul K. I respectfully disagree about having to be in an established family business to get work without advertising. My work is entirely "word of mouth". Just got my web site to finally list in the first few pages on Google recently too.
Sure, I could do budget work all day long but it is the over-the-top, one of a kind, projects that people remember. That's the only motorcycle work worth pushing high paying jewelry engraving or some gold inlay on a firearm out of the way for a week or two because that's the work that sells itself. In that respect, it's the only work that pays twice.
Time is precious. The time spent promoting your work is time taken away from producing better quality. Sooo either you are a marketing company that builds bikes or engraves on the side, or you are known for work that people remember which, in turn, sells itself. I understand that market competition dictates PR too ... in the bike business, you are competing with every hot shot with a box of rusty tools in his garage.
My excuse is that I am a terrible salesman. I have no choice but to let the work do the talking for me. :big grin:
allrighty .... gotta get shtuff done. Catch ya all later....
Chris
Paul K. I respectfully disagree about having to be in an established family business to get work without advertising. My work is entirely "word of mouth". Just got my web site to finally list in the first few pages on Google recently too.
Sure, I could do budget work all day long but it is the over-the-top, one of a kind, projects that people remember. That's the only motorcycle work worth pushing high paying jewelry engraving or some gold inlay on a firearm out of the way for a week or two because that's the work that sells itself. In that respect, it's the only work that pays twice.
Time is precious. The time spent promoting your work is time taken away from producing better quality. Sooo either you are a marketing company that builds bikes or engraves on the side, or you are known for work that people remember which, in turn, sells itself. I understand that market competition dictates PR too ... in the bike business, you are competing with every hot shot with a box of rusty tools in his garage.
My excuse is that I am a terrible salesman. I have no choice but to let the work do the talking for me. :big grin:
allrighty .... gotta get shtuff done. Catch ya all later....
Chris
Last edited:
Chris how long did it take you???? I'm trying to figure your hourly rate.........seems like you didn't make much per hour, and all I can say is why?????
I'm a jeweler and basically all I can charge for is my time. So in that respect weather you want the thing made in silver, brass or platinum the cost of making the piece is the SAME, other than the cost of metal.
I cant justify making a ring in Silver for 100.0. bucks and charge 800 cause its gold. The model takes the same time to complete and the only diff is the cost of metal.
Lets say the cost is 10.00 for the silver and 250 for the gold so if I figure it back wards I would need to charge 550 for the silver version. I guess thats why I dint do much silver.
But thats OK I cant devalue my work for a clients request just cause they cant justify spending that amount on Silver.
I have fought with this my entire career and the fact is, that you create the value of your work.
I also cast Orchids and have a site http://www.goldenorchid.com the point is that I can make a orchid Sculpture (Art not Jewelery) and sell it for 250.00 dollars but if I were to take the same amount of silver and make it into a bracelet I couldn't get half that for the bracelet.
People perceive Art as a much more valuable item than Jewelry and will pay more for it.
I have had clients say "you mean real silver" about the sculptures and the bracelet is put into the palm and weighed (subconsciously) to justify the price and then say well it only weighs an oz. and silver is 15.00 an oz why so much??????
I feel engraving is an ART and should be billed accordingly, what your engraving on should not have a Bering on the cost, unless its very rare or expensive to start with and then you should charge MORE.
The fact that the client wants you to engrave on a Gourd shouldn't devalue your work IMHO.
I'm a jeweler and basically all I can charge for is my time. So in that respect weather you want the thing made in silver, brass or platinum the cost of making the piece is the SAME, other than the cost of metal.
I cant justify making a ring in Silver for 100.0. bucks and charge 800 cause its gold. The model takes the same time to complete and the only diff is the cost of metal.
Lets say the cost is 10.00 for the silver and 250 for the gold so if I figure it back wards I would need to charge 550 for the silver version. I guess thats why I dint do much silver.
But thats OK I cant devalue my work for a clients request just cause they cant justify spending that amount on Silver.
I have fought with this my entire career and the fact is, that you create the value of your work.
I also cast Orchids and have a site http://www.goldenorchid.com the point is that I can make a orchid Sculpture (Art not Jewelery) and sell it for 250.00 dollars but if I were to take the same amount of silver and make it into a bracelet I couldn't get half that for the bracelet.
People perceive Art as a much more valuable item than Jewelry and will pay more for it.
I have had clients say "you mean real silver" about the sculptures and the bracelet is put into the palm and weighed (subconsciously) to justify the price and then say well it only weighs an oz. and silver is 15.00 an oz why so much??????
I feel engraving is an ART and should be billed accordingly, what your engraving on should not have a Bering on the cost, unless its very rare or expensive to start with and then you should charge MORE.
The fact that the client wants you to engrave on a Gourd shouldn't devalue your work IMHO.
Christopher Malouf
~ Elite 1000 Member ~
Hi Isaac,
The orchids are beautiful. It seems I've seen your work ... can't recall if it was here on the forum or I stumbled across your site.
If I push hard, I can bang out a set of rocker covers (deep relief and bead punched) in a full 7 day week. How deep I go makes a big difference in time and this is definitely not my best scroll engraving. I had some equipment issues while I was engraving these so that dragged things out. One thing that threw a wrench in the works is that even though the aluminum on the old Harley stuff cuts pretty good, it is sand cast and sometimes full of imperfections and inclusions. These were just terrible. Everything is compromised when the quality of the canvas is marginal at best. The new aluminum is die cast but tends to be "chippy". I'd rather work on the old stuff and prefer it is not chrome plated when it is done.
Honestly ... I'm doing a set of platinum rings now and that's much more pleasant to engrave and, most especially, clean up after :big grin:
----
Sam: Tey Herrera is the guy that's really taking M/C engraving to the next level. Picture Ron Smith's sculpted scroll on a bike ... unbelievable!!!
--------
Paul K (Exotic Choppers) --- not to take any work away from David here .... maybe we can work something out to do one promo bike - the Shovelhead. You have my e-mail address.
Catch ya later ....
Chris
The orchids are beautiful. It seems I've seen your work ... can't recall if it was here on the forum or I stumbled across your site.
If I push hard, I can bang out a set of rocker covers (deep relief and bead punched) in a full 7 day week. How deep I go makes a big difference in time and this is definitely not my best scroll engraving. I had some equipment issues while I was engraving these so that dragged things out. One thing that threw a wrench in the works is that even though the aluminum on the old Harley stuff cuts pretty good, it is sand cast and sometimes full of imperfections and inclusions. These were just terrible. Everything is compromised when the quality of the canvas is marginal at best. The new aluminum is die cast but tends to be "chippy". I'd rather work on the old stuff and prefer it is not chrome plated when it is done.
Honestly ... I'm doing a set of platinum rings now and that's much more pleasant to engrave and, most especially, clean up after :big grin:
----
Sam: Tey Herrera is the guy that's really taking M/C engraving to the next level. Picture Ron Smith's sculpted scroll on a bike ... unbelievable!!!
--------
Paul K (Exotic Choppers) --- not to take any work away from David here .... maybe we can work something out to do one promo bike - the Shovelhead. You have my e-mail address.
Catch ya later ....
Chris
Last edited:
Chris,
Wait till ya tear in to a set of S&S billet rocker boxes..........
You'll think ya died and went ta heaven......hahahahaha
and the generator cast pieces are sweet too...after the fins are off, so ya have a nice place to work with.......
The old sand cast "ALWAYS" has some kind of hole or other inclusion...RIGHT in the middle of the most detailed part of the design.........
Ya can hide most of it in large scrollwork that dosen't have the detail.........
You know exactly what I mean.....cause the scroll your you normally do, ain't what ya do on HD parts...
I'm doin a set right now, for one of Billy Lanes older bikes "King of New York" .....and it's "FUN"....
Gettin another display together right now for another "Art of the Chopper" exhibit down at some museum in Florida....then something said for it gall going to the Smithsonion around this time next year......
I'll try to post some pics, if I get the chance...........Right now I'm runnin around lost....
Wait till ya tear in to a set of S&S billet rocker boxes..........
You'll think ya died and went ta heaven......hahahahaha
and the generator cast pieces are sweet too...after the fins are off, so ya have a nice place to work with.......
The old sand cast "ALWAYS" has some kind of hole or other inclusion...RIGHT in the middle of the most detailed part of the design.........
Ya can hide most of it in large scrollwork that dosen't have the detail.........
You know exactly what I mean.....cause the scroll your you normally do, ain't what ya do on HD parts...
I'm doin a set right now, for one of Billy Lanes older bikes "King of New York" .....and it's "FUN"....
Gettin another display together right now for another "Art of the Chopper" exhibit down at some museum in Florida....then something said for it gall going to the Smithsonion around this time next year......
I'll try to post some pics, if I get the chance...........Right now I'm runnin around lost....
No kidding? Tay was a student of mine a few years ago. Heck of a nice fellow, and I'm glad to hear he's kicking some engraving butt! / ~Sam
Christopher Malouf
~ Elite 1000 Member ~
Yep CJ ... you know exactly what I was up to on those rockers .... strategically placed large scroll with big background areas .... I can recommend S&S covers but what can you do when the customer insists on original parts? .... just make up the difference in $$ over the course of the rest of the project.
The original primary cover I have on deck now had almost $300 bucks of prep work go into it BEFORE I even begin cutting. That includes removing the grooved lines (at customer's request) and resurfacing. That tends to be a big deterrent for 99.9% of the price shoppers that e-mail me.
You gotta post some work man ... looking forward to it .... still waiting for photos from the Clinton Library gig ....
-----
Sam, his web site is http://www.tarrera.com/index2.html
It doesn't come up in a Google search .... but then again, I don't think it matters at that level of high-end work.
.... I can recommend S&S covers but what can you do when the customer insists on original parts? .... just make up the difference in $$ over the course of the rest of the project.The original primary cover I have on deck now had almost $300 bucks of prep work go into it BEFORE I even begin cutting. That includes removing the grooved lines (at customer's request) and resurfacing. That tends to be a big deterrent for 99.9% of the price shoppers that e-mail me.
You gotta post some work man ... looking forward to it .... still waiting for photos from the Clinton Library gig ....
-----
Sam, his web site is http://www.tarrera.com/index2.html
It doesn't come up in a Google search .... but then again, I don't think it matters at that level of high-end work.
Last edited:
Chris so you didnt eat that week? How can you survive on that kind of income? At 50 hours its 16/hr!!!
you must be single and have no kids!!!!
Like I said most engravers are giving their work away.
Im curious if you would be willing to share what you (all forum members)charge an hour for hand engraving as an avarage, not including gold inlay.
Does it matter what you are engraving on as far as the cost is concerned or is it a flat rate?
Just curious..........
you must be single and have no kids!!!!
Like I said most engravers are giving their work away.
Im curious if you would be willing to share what you (all forum members)charge an hour for hand engraving as an avarage, not including gold inlay.
Does it matter what you are engraving on as far as the cost is concerned or is it a flat rate?
Just curious..........
Christopher Malouf
~ Elite 1000 Member ~
Thank-you Isaac for breaking that down for the forum. My "gozintas" are a little rusty these days :big grin:
This particular customer got a bit more with the relieved and bead punched background because of the inclusions in the aluminum. When he returned them for plating, he also shipped everything on the rest of the bike that can be engraved. Trust me ... it will be made up on the back end. If those old rockers hadn't been such a sucky casting, (yep, I got hit with a curve ball) ... then things would have been a bit more in my favor.
Heck ... I live in West Virginia!!! Even if I only make $25 bucks and hour, I only have to work 2 or 3 days a week to pay all the bills and pay for the ammo I burn up on my days off. (that of course ... is not the rate I get for my jewelry and gun/knife work)
This particular customer got a bit more with the relieved and bead punched background because of the inclusions in the aluminum. When he returned them for plating, he also shipped everything on the rest of the bike that can be engraved. Trust me ... it will be made up on the back end. If those old rockers hadn't been such a sucky casting, (yep, I got hit with a curve ball) ... then things would have been a bit more in my favor.
Heck ... I live in West Virginia!!! Even if I only make $25 bucks and hour, I only have to work 2 or 3 days a week to pay all the bills and pay for the ammo I burn up on my days off. (that of course ... is not the rate I get for my jewelry and gun/knife work)
Last edited:
eastslope
~ Elite 1000 Member ~
Chris, your rocker boxes are amazing. You ought to post more of your work sometime. Northern Montana doesn't cost a whole lot to live in, but getting things here can sure prove challenging.
Chris and all, I'm not trying to ruffle any feathers here just trying to understand the pricing structure this group of artists is trying to use.
I received some private messages about hourly rates and I thank those that did that.
I'm not sure why talking about it is such voodoo but I guess its a public forum and some people might not want the public to see the costs, or lack there of, on a open forum.
I just had an acquaintance come by my shop (Dean Moy) and show me the trophy he made for the Arlington Park Horse track, wow it was impressive, all hand done no casting (ala Jason) after I showed him my milling machine and growing machine and I was asked to participate in the design and construction of the next Indy trophy 5 feet tall and all silver. Man I'm excited!!!!!
I wont touch it for less than 100.00/hr.
I received some private messages about hourly rates and I thank those that did that.
I'm not sure why talking about it is such voodoo but I guess its a public forum and some people might not want the public to see the costs, or lack there of, on a open forum.
I just had an acquaintance come by my shop (Dean Moy) and show me the trophy he made for the Arlington Park Horse track, wow it was impressive, all hand done no casting (ala Jason) after I showed him my milling machine and growing machine and I was asked to participate in the design and construction of the next Indy trophy 5 feet tall and all silver. Man I'm excited!!!!!
I wont touch it for less than 100.00/hr.
Christopher Malouf
~ Elite 1000 Member ~
Dude (Spike), your comparing apples to carrots. Life as an engraver means rates will fluctuate dramatically one way or the other. I might do a signet ring that works out to $80 bucks an hour then get into something that turns into $20 bucks an hour. If I wanna make $100 - $200 bucks an hour consistently, I'll move to New York City and work for one of the lettering shops.
If you work for a jewelry company and draw a salary it is easy to cherry pick your pet projects.
No-one in the world is gonna pay $4K to $5K to engrave a set of Harley rocker covers. LOL! The different markets will only bring so much for a specific canvas within each market ... which is precisely why I won't push jewelry work aside for motorcycle work. That equates to one or two bike projects a year.
A highly embellished Smith & Wesson will never bring in what a Colt SAA with the same engraving will. That's just the way it is.
If you're ever going to make it as an engraver, you either need to stick to your day job until you can do bulino work like Christian D. or you need to diversify and charge accordingly.
Everyone that's starting out puts in some extra time and sweat. Partly because it is about getting the best you can do out into circulation as soon as possible. That's the work that brings in more work. People don't bragg to their friends about the shoddy, budget work they got from Joe Shmo engraver .... and if they do, their friends aren't impressed enough to tell their friends. That's part of paying some dues buddy.
Another thing the salaried employee doesn't need to contend with are the economic times. If the phone's not ringing for some knife engraving, it will be for something else. When things slow up after Christmas ... having a grand or two of motorcycle engraving laying around looks pretty darn good.
I guess most folks don't want to discuss their business on an open forum (and e-mailed you instead). I don't blame them ... until you become an accomplished, full time engraver in something other than just one medium, you're not going to understand.
If you work for a jewelry company and draw a salary it is easy to cherry pick your pet projects.
No-one in the world is gonna pay $4K to $5K to engrave a set of Harley rocker covers. LOL! The different markets will only bring so much for a specific canvas within each market ... which is precisely why I won't push jewelry work aside for motorcycle work. That equates to one or two bike projects a year.
A highly embellished Smith & Wesson will never bring in what a Colt SAA with the same engraving will. That's just the way it is.
If you're ever going to make it as an engraver, you either need to stick to your day job until you can do bulino work like Christian D. or you need to diversify and charge accordingly.
Everyone that's starting out puts in some extra time and sweat. Partly because it is about getting the best you can do out into circulation as soon as possible. That's the work that brings in more work. People don't bragg to their friends about the shoddy, budget work they got from Joe Shmo engraver .... and if they do, their friends aren't impressed enough to tell their friends. That's part of paying some dues buddy.
Another thing the salaried employee doesn't need to contend with are the economic times. If the phone's not ringing for some knife engraving, it will be for something else. When things slow up after Christmas ... having a grand or two of motorcycle engraving laying around looks pretty darn good.
I guess most folks don't want to discuss their business on an open forum (and e-mailed you instead). I don't blame them ... until you become an accomplished, full time engraver in something other than just one medium, you're not going to understand.
Last edited:
Neo Dutch
Elite Cafe Member
- Joined
- Nov 9, 2006
- Messages
- 186
I was wondering how to price a Harley clutch cover so I went to the local HD dealer and asked for the price of the cheapest and most expensive clutch covers from the parts catalogue. $100 for a plain one, $260 for the most expensive. Now folk buy these expensive mass produced doo-dads all day, so you'd think you could easily get $260 for a one off hand engraved part. No way Jose. You'll be flat out covering the price of the plain part, let alone all the effort required to sand off the powder coat finish, polish it and then scratchin' it up.
There's a small fortune to be made by engraving bike stuff in Australia, provided you start off with a large fortune.
There's a small fortune to be made by engraving bike stuff in Australia, provided you start off with a large fortune.
Sponsors
