Critique Request Newest Scrolls

Bunic

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This is my latest scroll design. I've tried to incorporate the suggestions received on the forums.

CC Please and Tnx!
 

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pilkguns

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quickly, long day ahead, too much leaf sturcture, not enough background. Too much overlapping of leaves from outside to in, which creates a mass where some background should peak through so you can balance a ratio of bacground to scrollwork.

From a practical standpoint, this would be a nightmare to cut because of all the leaf crossing in and out, over under. Your graver would be constantly starting and stopping because there is hardly a full spiral anywhere.

oh, as drawn, you don't have any unshaded portion of the backbone, like I whited out in the last critique. Other than that it looks good you are making some great efforts.
 
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CJ Tate

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Very intricate scroll. If you were to cut it how, big would it be?

I visited your site today, nice looking and well organized. Your engraving and drawing from March to today has steadily marched forward.

Have you read the book "Outliers" by Malcolm Gladwell? Outliers = those that stand out side of the normal range. (my abreviated definition) It is about what makes the great, the experts, tops in a field. interesting read. but one thing was consistent - the time they invested averaged about 10,000 hours. You are building your 10,000 and it steadily pays off.

Everything that contributes to a particular skill contributes to the 10,000 hours so drawing counts, cutting counts, studing the engraving books, the drawing that you may have done in the past might count also particularly if it was more classical in nature (similar to what we are trying to cut as engravers). Daunting to try to calculate how far you are towards the total 10k but you might be surprised if you tried calculating.

Your progress is clear and suggesting that I should give it a more organized try!

Candy
 

Marcus Hunt

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Ditto Scott's critique. You have some nice shaped leaves but it's too much. Sometimes less is more. Also, beware of over shading. If you are intending cutting away/stippling the background this will look a real mess. The background will eat up your shading and there will be no definition. You have to be very careful shading off of a leaf or the spine of the scroll; again often less is more. Knowing what is right will only come with experience.
 

Arnaud Van Tilburgh

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I too agree with what is said by Scott and Marcus, I think best is always make the background (negative space) black before shading, you will notice that you always need white against black, otherwise there is no design

just my modest contribution, arnaud
 

Sam

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Great progress, Mike. Echoing what others have pointed out, you have two areas which throw the background-to-scroll ratio out of balance. Darn good effort and better than what I was drawing when I first started out.

As Marcus pointed out, extending shade lines off the edge of an element against a black background is risky as you can lose the contrast that separates the element from the background. In the beginning it's best to keep an uninterrupted 'edge' surrounding your design. As you get more experience you'll learn when you can stray from that, but for now I think it'd help your designs if you adhere to that. / ~Sam
 

Bunic

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Scott,

Tnx! for taking the time from your busy schedule to comment. After hearing the comments from a number of the Big Guns, I recognized the 'over-abundance' of leaves! My plan for the next week or so is to draw and cut the basic scrolls and leaves. I also agree with the leaf to background ratio. It's way off! Tnx!


Candy,

Tnx! for commenting and visiting my site. I plan on looking for the "Outliers" book this weekend. The concept and hours to 'expert' makes sense. Tnx!


Marcus,

Yes. I imagine cutting the backforund out of this 'bush' would be an even greater mess. Particularly if it was on a gun that would be blued!

And 'Yes' on my obtaining experience. That seems to be the most expensive stuff!


Arnaud,

Tnx! for joining in. I have never considered removing the background before doing the shading. It makes sense. Do most engravers use that work progression?


Sam,

Tnx! for the comments! As I mentioned above, I need to consider what the design would look like once the bkgrnd is removed and the item blued. That would change most of what I have drawn. In my scroll sketchbook, I have added the 'blackened' background on some and it makes a big difference. Tnx!
 

Arnaud Van Tilburgh

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Mike, yes always first remove background to see the negative space before shading. That in a rule. Remember, seeing a white spot on a black surface the spot looks bigger than a black spot of the same size on a white surface.
arnaud


 

pilkguns

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I have never considered removing the background before doing the shading. It makes sense. Do most engravers use that work progression?

yes, it allows you to see you background ratio as Arnaud said, but it also give you the final design to work on. You can correct slight elbows in the scrolls if necessary or ifyou just happen cut wide while removing the backgrouond, you can smooth up the backbone and still be ok, and then shade to the adjusted point of the backbone, rather than removing the backb one into the shading.
 

pilkguns

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For me, a scroll progression with background removal is
1. Draw the outlines of the main body scrolls (this is backbones only.
2. Cut those.
3. Draw intermediary scrolls
4. Cut intermediary backbones.
5. Depending on the complexity of the scroll I would draw the smaller scrolls and leaves in, or in most cases just start cutting them as I can do this easily without drawing them. I can cut main body scrolls 90% of the time with no problem, but I usually regret that 10% of the time when I do it. )
6. Next, I would flare every line that faces into background area.
7. Remove background by method of your choice.
8. Clean up the edges of scrolls, leaves and borders
9. Shade everything,
10. Stipple everything.
11. Sand or stone off all burrs
12. Blacken everything with a black marker.
13. Wipe off the tops/unengraved areas
14, Examine work, add shading or recut lines as necessary
15. Blacken everything with a black marker.
16. Wipe off the tops/unengraved areas
17. Examine again, add shading or recut lines as necessary
18. Blacken everything with a black marker.
19. Wipe off the tops/unengraved areas
20. Call customer and tell them to send money.
21. Let it set for few days, then look at it again
22. add shading or recut lines as necessary
 
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Bunic

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Arnaud,

Excellent example of the difference of how the two contrast work.


Candy,

Me too!


Scott,

Again... great explanation of your work flow. It's one of those things that is so logical, it is easily missed by those (like myself) who have not worked through that process enough to really understand it. Tnx!.
 

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