The State of Hand Engraving Today - Questions from a Beginner

[V.Vetro]

Hello everyone.

I’m new to the forum and to the art of hand engraving in general. After months of setting up, studying, and researching, I’ve assembled my workstation with a pneumatic graver. I’ve got about 20 hours of practice so far (it’s all circles and lines for now

At the moment, it’s a hobby. I’m a graphic designer by profession, so for the next few years, it will just be hard training in my free time.

My big dream is to create something of my own, and through my long journey, I discovered this art that I’ve fallen in love with.

I’m writing to get some specific expert advice: I’d like to specialize in engraving watch dials of watches I assemble myself. I find some pieces available online and here on the forum to be absolutely stunning. However, it seems to me that dial engraving is not a very common activity; it’s mostly cases and straps. I wonder if there are certain considerations that I’m overlooking.

My intention is to assemble watches by sourcing parts from third-party suppliers, focusing specifically on the engraving of the dial.

Then, a broader question: What is the state of the art of engraving in the modern world? What are the emerging markets, and how do you see the overall demand?

Again, this is just a hobby for now, but if I were to see a potential career on the horizon, I’d commit even more time to it, if possible.

Thanks to anyone who takes the time to respond.

Greetings from Italy!

 

[monk]

welcome. i'd suggest drawing a few designs to practice on. design is yer expertize-- so practice on cutting useful stuff- dials. i'd think a stereo zoom scope would be a quite valuable addition to your arsenal of weapons. when your work gets to be nice to the eye, gradually develop market/s for what you do. good luck to you

 

[DaveAtWeirs]

I imagine one of the main reasons you see more cases than dials engraved is that the dial is usually where the logo and branding are most prominent and recognized. If you're paying a couple of grand to get your 10k+ rolex engraved, part of the appeal would be that everyone would know it's an actual rolex and not just a copy with a cheap movement, which is what the dial does at a glance. Not many people would pay 500 quid for a seal carving on a tin signet ring, they might for a 150 quid silver signet, and with a 18ct yellow gold signet you can have 500 as your minimum charge, both because of the price and because everyone can see its gold. Same with watches, you can charge a grand to fully engrave an alpinist case, and you could easily charge twice that for the same engraving on a rolex. But for either of them to be recognized as worth their base value, you need the dial. Without the original dial, both levels become 'just an homage' to the regular joe soap and even collectors which, in their mind, drops it down to the level of tin signet.
Obviously there are exceptions, but I'd say that's why you don't see engraved dials as much.

However, if you get really good at the engraving and make a name for yourself doing really good hand engraved dials, and having interesting/appealing designs, you'll easily get a few commissions from collectors/watch builders, and potentially a small brand might approach you to commission a few.

 

[V.Vetro]

welcome. i'd suggest drawing a few designs to practice on. design is yer expertize-- so practice on cutting useful stuff- dials. i'd think a stereo zoom scope would be a quite valuable addition to your arsenal of weapons. when your work gets to be nice to the eye, gradually develop market/s for what you do. good luck to you

Thank you for the welcome and the advice! I already have the microscope—let's say I started quite strong with the tools. Despite my initial hesitation, I realized that working with a microscope (with light included) and a rotating vise is quite comfortable.

 

[V.Vetro]

I imagine one of the main reasons you see more cases than dials engraved is that the dial is usually where the logo and branding are most prominent and recognized. If you're paying a couple of grand to get your 10k+ rolex engraved, part of the appeal would be that everyone would know it's an actual rolex and not just a copy with a cheap movement, which is what the dial does at a glance. Not many people would pay 500 quid for a seal carving on a tin signet ring, they might for a 150 quid silver signet, and with a 18ct yellow gold signet you can have 500 as your minimum charge, both because of the price and because everyone can see its gold. Same with watches, you can charge a grand to fully engrave an alpinist case, and you could easily charge twice that for the same engraving on a rolex. But for either of them to be recognized as worth their base value, you need the dial. Without the original dial, both levels become 'just an homage' to the regular joe soap and even collectors which, in their mind, drops it down to the level of tin signet.
Obviously there are exceptions, but I'd say that's why you don't see engraved dials as much.

However, if you get really good at the engraving and make a name for yourself doing really good hand engraved dials, and having interesting/appealing designs, you'll easily get a few commissions from collectors/watch builders, and potentially a small brand might approach you to commission a few.

Thanks for the reply, interesting point. In fact, my focus was more on engraving a self-assembled watch rather than customizing a high-end watch (at the moment, I can't even imagine taking on such a job, not even in my wildest dreams).

I'm thinking more about sourcing components from third parties and focusing on engraving the dial.

However, as you rightly point out, branding is fundamental in watchmaking, so I'm not sure how much of a market there is for engraved no-brand watches or creating a microbrand...

Anyway, I'm rushing things I still have everything to learn.

 

[Sinterklaas]

The main issue I see with dial engraving. Is that dial are very thin. So you cant engrave very deep. Unless you make your own dial. But then it still cant be very thick. Because then your watch wont close because there is not enough room for the movement to fit.

But If you look on instagram there are definitly engravers doing dials. But mostly on custom made watches.
One of them is Arthur Akmaev

Happenings: Artur Akmaev To Lecture At The Horological Society Of New York

Akmaev will discuss the art of hand engraving, enameling and high-end finishing.

www.hodinkee.com

 

[V.Vetro]

The main issue I see with dial engraving. Is that dial are very thin. So you cant engrave very deep. Unless you make your own dial. But then it still cant be very thick. Because then your watch wont close because there is not enough room for the movement to fit.

But If you look on instagram there are definitly engravers doing dials. But mostly on custom made watches.
One of them is Arthur Akmaev

Happenings: Artur Akmaev To Lecture At The Horological Society Of New York

Akmaev will discuss the art of hand engraving, enameling and high-end finishing.

www.hodinkee.com

Right, at the moment I'm practicing on copper or bronze plates ranging from 0.3 to 0.8 mm, just to get used to them.

I’m familiar with Artur’s amazing work, and I take a lot of inspiration from it.

If you know of any other artists, I’d be happy to hear about them!

There aren’t many I follow, but I also admire the work of J Parke, Keisuke Kano, and a forum member I came across, Marius Mellebye, who’s done some really interesting stuff.

I hope more artists emerge because I think they bring innovation to this craft and to watchmaking.

I’m still a bit colder on customizing cases and straps, but I’ve started to like them more over time.

 

[sam]

Most or all watch dials are brass and are .5mm thick.

If you buy a printed dial (no applied raised indices) you can wash the paint off with acetone and you have a shiny brass dial ready for engraving.

I would avoid dials that have no dial feet as they must be attached with a sticky material they call "dial dots". I've seen this adhesive creep into movements and cause havoc, and I won't service any watch that has a dial attached in this fashion. It's an accepted practice with the modding crowd because most don't service movements.

If you wish to assemble your own custom watches, then I would encourage you to use one of the most popular watch modding supply houses so all parts will be compatible and match up correctly. Specs are all over the place if you use parts from different sources, and you'll probably run into problems. A good supplier is CrystalTimes https://usa.crystaltimes.net/ which specializes in Seiko based aftermarket parts.

Assembly is pretty straightforward if you're mechanically inclined. The most difficult part will be attaching the hands properly. Should you get into movement servicing, then that's another deeeeep and expensive rabbit hole.

 

[V.Vetro]

Thank you, Sam, for your advice. It's an honor for me to receive it from you, especially since I purchased one of your beginner video courses.

I didn't know about Crystaltimes, it's gold for me! It helps me avoid getting lost in the various AliExpress options, etc.

Assembling watches doesn't worry me much, although as you said, I need to figure out how to handle the hands. The only time I tried, it was a nightmare, but I didn’t have the right tools for them. We'll see if I can manage once I’ve bought them.