Who's Who of Engravers Directory , need your help

[Arnaud Van Tilburgh]

Scott, I don’t know if I can be of any help on this. I think Andrew made it even more difficult, although he is very clear.
If you look at the Wikipedia list of Brittan engravers there, Phil Coggan is not on it, en some others that in my opinion need to be there.

In my opinion a list is only useful if it is a complete one. In Belgium we have the Belgium jewellers list, I’m on it now, but not as a designer, as one needs to be learned at school to be on that list, I don’t care but sure I’m a jewellery designer. So what use is that list?

The igraver.com also has a list, FEGA too but none of them are complete. Perhaps the Internet has the most complete list but it is spread all over the internet.

You also will have to renew the list now and then, no Mather what criteria you will use to add engravers to the list, so the less on the list, the more work keeping the list up to date.

Just my contribute, arnaud

 

[Andrew Biggs]

I see Andrews point, but, theses people are all making history wether we know it or not. The fellows who use to make muzzleloaders, wether they made one or a thousand, were lost because no one bothered to account for them, even though they contributed in some manner along the way. Thats my 3 cents worth.

But the question is..........significant and contributing history??? You could always argue that we all contribute (which we do)...........but then the significant part of the question comes into play. Likewise someone's work can be significant............but does it contribute to anything?

I would also suggest that the internet is probably the very worst place to keep the information. It works well for a time, however long that may be. But, as the owners of web sites come and go..............so does the information. Eventually it will be lost in the ether.

However, if it is published in print form..........then barring nuclear holocaust, then something will always survive.

I do happen to know of a publication that would welcome an article about significant engravers and their contribution to the engraving arts

Cheers
Andrew

 

[lesholmes]

OK, Andrew,

What Publication?

Les

 

[Roger Bleile]

If you look back at Martin Strolz's post #24 or my posts #32 and #40 you can get an idea of how we have explained our suggestions for inclusion in the list.

While some of those that others have named, without explanation, have merit for inclusion (because I know something about them), just suggesting names without explanation doesn't help Scott in his project or enlighten the forum members reading the names.

If I just suggested William Aubray, William Avery, and Thomas Barlow for inclusion, what would that tell you without explaning that they all worked for Colt in the 19th century? Even then they had no lasting impact on the trade that I can explain so I didn't include them in in any of my posts on this thread.

I'm just trying to say that if you have a suggestion, I think you should give a brief explanation as to why they have a lasting impact on the trade and not just throw names out.

Just my opinion FWIW.

RB

 

[Andrew Biggs]

Hi Les

The FEGA Engraver magazine

Cheers
Andrew

 

[Christopher Malouf]

It's been my understanding that this "book" has been under construction for the last 15 years. lol

Per Andrew's suggestion regarding Armageddon and the fact that 2012 is approaching quickly .... There's only one way to keep something like this from being a book of "personal opinion" .....

 

[fegarex]

Chris,
Just to keep things clear from the post just above yours and so people aren't confused.
FEGA isn't working on any book like this nor has any plans. I assume you didn't mean FEGA but I just wanted to let others know.
Rex

 

[Christopher Malouf]

No, I was not referring to FEGA Rex. I wouldn't do that. I was just trying to interject a little humor. I figured I would since it was Dave G. mentioning my name that sparked this debate LOL!!

For the record, I respectfully decline any and all nominations (including all mis-spellings of my name) for anything and everything ... past, present and future unless explicitly authorized prior to any such mis-spelling is made.

----


A project like this is a massive undertaking and every statement submitted needs to be double checked and double confirmed by the author. I personally would not take the words in these posts as gospel, put it in a book and sign my name to it without doing my own verification first.

I have been a student of history for most of my adult life. I can say with all certainty that there has never been an unbiased historian. One sentence can either preserve history or (unwittingly) commit a fraud. That's a very heavy responsibility for any one person. All one can do is his best and pray that history does not judge him too harshly.

I commend Scott for taking on such a responsibility as this.

 

[richard hall]

Poor Scott !! Maybe the engravers who are interested could sent Scott a bio, that would cut down on confusion and help the book along. Roger, how long does it take for feed-back and putting together a book this large ???

 

[Andrew Biggs]

Hi Chris

I love the picture....that's great!!

Cheers
Andrew

 

[Roger Bleile]

Poor Scott !! Maybe the engravers who are interested could sent Scott a bio, that would cut down on confusion and help the book along. Roger, how long does it take for feed-back and putting together a book this large ???

Richard, a reference book can go from start to finish within a year if the author can work on it full time and the publisher has a priority for it. On the other hand, most who are not professional journalists or editors will tend to dabble around with a project until the day they die. As an example, I know of an engraver who has written and illustrated a wonderful instructional manual which could have gone to print 2 years ago but his tendency to piddle with it endlessly and the lack of an agressive publisher may doom the project to oblivion (BTW I'm not talking about Scott). So there are too many variables to give a simple answer to your question.

Roger

 

[Roger Bleile]

...I have been a student of history for most of my adult life. I can say with all certainty that there has never been an unbiased historian. One sentence can either preserve history or (unwittingly) commit a fraud. That's a very heavy responsibility for any one person. All one can do is his best and pray that history does not judge him too harshly...

I agree with you completely Chris. One cannot let the perfect become the enemy of the possible.

Roger

 

[Andrew Biggs]

Another thing with a directory that features engravers "who have contributed significantly to the art" is that you would also have to explain why they are significant and what contribution they have made and any influences to their contemporaries or generations after them.

A name and a bio only doesn't quite tell the story because there is no connection. For instance you can join the dots between Harry Kell and Ken Hunt/Lynton McKenzie and Marcus Hunt because there is a time and generational line that connects them. The influence of Harry Kell had very long tentacles.

Without that explanation the engravers becomes a meaningless list of names that is interesting ............but doesn't really give you any of the important information about why they are significant or any contributions that they have made.

History has to flow from one generation to the next and is all about the cause and effect of sometimes seemingly unrelated events triggering change or influencing the environment around us. It is the historians job to put all this together and provide a path for the reader to understand........basically it is joining the dots........without that path it is meaningless.

I agree ...............any list will always have a certain amount of bias but will never be complete and to a certain degree, be a living document. Nothing is, or will ever be perfect.

Cheers
Andrew

 

[richard hall]

Andrew, now that really puts things into perspective. Hadnt thought about links to other engravers, or another thought, even the links to clients. WOW---what a task !!! Like Roger said, time consuming where one has to really keep their wits about them..

 

[pilkguns]

With all due respect to Andrew, a biography to my denotational understanding is what connects the dots of a person's life and why you would want to know their history. If it does'nt do that, it is not what it purports to be.

A detailed biography will have more details of course with a focus on the intended audience. To say that John Rohner and Lynton McKenzie were best of freinds of is not of a real importance to a biography but of interest since they were both hugely influential engravers. Saying that Lynton was the pioneer of an original scroll style that is the most widely copied scroll in America is essential to his biography. Likewise many engravers of my generation associate selective French graying with Lynton, as he was the one who took it public in a big way. But knowing that the John Rohner is the one who discovered this technique and taught it to Lynton is the kind of thing that draws the lineage from both men down to us today who practice this method in the art we create.

 

[art65ab]

bradshawgunengraver

A B Bradshaw engraving may bear looking at a recent "Dino Gun " featured fully carved dinosaurs and is listed at Drakes auction house under "Ken Owen 4 bore" to see it....Thanks

 

[Brian Hochstrat]

Art65 AB: It makes me wonder if perhaps you are AB Bradshaw, your locations matches as well as the AB in your cryptic forum name.

Am I the only one annoyed by the pandering for, or whining about the lack of acknowledgement around here lately? Getting recognized is fairly simple, do good work and then get it seen. No cryptic names, no whining, just work at the two fore mentioned things and you will get the recognition you deserve. It is really that simple. Be well. Brian

 

[JJ Roberts]

Brian,This came up before about AB Bradshaw & Art65AB I think your right there one in the same.As for getting recogized you hit the nail right on the head, keep up the good work. J.J.

 

[TyG]

There are some contemporary Western Engravers that are dedicated to a higher standard of artform and teaching or mentoring those new to engraving. Dave Alderson and Ernie Marsh come to mind, they are also expanding on the traditional form creating an evolution of our medium. Another who is dedicated to teaching Western Bright Cut is Jeremiah Watt, prepared to travel the world to promote the style to all. Perhaps these could be included in the modern artists furthering the engraving artform.

 

[silverchip]

To add to Ty's post you could really add Al Peceti,Fran Harry and Al Tiegen and Mark Drain,don't forget Dan and Dave Murray too.