GRS or Lindsay?

[KCSteve]

Brian

My apologies - I didn't mean 'rant' in the context of anger or upset. I use the term myself to include a longish exposition of a firmly held opinion, particularly if it's something that some may take offense to.

Your posts are well thought out and clearly presented. You make it clear that you're presenting your opinion and observations - and I happen to think they're pretty good ones.

 

[Brian Marshall]

Hi Chris,

Good stuff! I hadn’t thought about the 20/20 hindsight… but let’s talk about that.

My intention in this long winded article is to lay everything out. Things that people have been reluctant to say for whatever reason, some of the things that I have observed over the years, and my own personal experiences. I can’t do more than present my views. I don’t believe that what I’ve said or will say is all there is to be said! You guys have to step up and present your own opinions and observations too.

Hopefully, someone just coming into hand engraving will gain something from all this. I’m certainly not doing it just to see my name up in “lights†so to speak. I’ve got more to do than the proverbial one armed paperhanger – unfortunate allusion, ‘cause I do have limitations in my arm - but you know what I mean. Spending the time to do this takes away from spending time that would make me money or a least give me a solid result. I’ll never really know, or be able to measure the usefulness of what I’m writing here. And yeah, it’ll all get buried in the archives by the end of next week…

As to the purchase of knicknacks. I gotta confess here that I am probably a world champion at that. My excuse, if there is one – is that I gotta have all this stuff around to show the students when they ask about it. <grinning> Right?

To let ‘em try it, and make their own decisions. The truth is that I have made the same mistakes that I am warning the new engraver not to make. And I’ve done it on a grand scale! Anyone who has ever been to my studios will tell you that. Come visit and see for yourself if you can.

And finally, as has been said before – and I think it was Sam who said it. There is no way that anyone could ever use any one of these tools to its maximum potential – even if you had two or three lifetimes to do it in! So go USE what ya got!

I have students here this week, and I gotta get to work – like now…

Brian


P.S. Reading over some of what's up I can see some things I need to go back and fix. I didn't mention Tom White, and I completely blew by the video resources - of which I highly recomend Sam's. Try to get to it tonight after the students leave.

 

[jimzim75]

Hi to all From St. Johns, Newfoundland, Canada,
This is unusual for me in that it a true vacation. No engraving side venues so far.
Lots to see and experiance. Which will give me something to engrave when I come home.
This place is so full of eye candy in the way of different thing to see it's amazing.

The people are open and friendly and willing talk to any subject pretty much. The forum is that way in
sence. I know most of the guys that have been doing engraving for while would like to pass on what's
happened to them and what has brought them success. I think the one thing that we may offer is a
smoothing of the way, but not a blue print. You have to actually experiance it for yourself. I can descibe
St. John's to you but that is what has met my eyes. I see a gold mine of ideas and design here.

I would move here at the drop of a hat. If another came here he may only see one more port town.
At the speed at which this hits one with open eyes is stagering. I pencil and paper can not do it all justice,
it takes a camera and a prepaired mind.

The best way to know life and spice that is pure inspration is to go out and taste it. Capture it if you can
and if your quick enough.

I look forward to getting back to design room, it's only the first day and I already have pure gold.

Talk to ya later,
Jim

 

[Bama]

Observations from a fairly new engraver to be

About 5 years ago I started wanting to learn to engrave. I was not aware of any professional engravers loacted in Alabama so I started talking to some folks and everybody told be to get Meeks book which I did. From this book I learned that I needed to learn a lot more to be able to understand everything that Mr. Meek had put in his book. I rounded up a few tools a chasing hammer an atempted to cut lines. I did this for a couple of years and was not happy with the results I was getting. I attended a engraving class at the NMLRA gunbuilding seminar in Bowling Green KY. THis class was taught by Mark Silver and his main emphasis was on learning to sharpen a square graver and drawing. This class was a big help as I was able to put a better point on my graver and cut better lines.

I was still struggleling and decided that if I really wanted to learn that I was going to have to take a full blown engraving course so I signed up for the beginners class with GRS. This was the first time I had come into contact with the power graver and I was very impressed with how much better I could cut my lines right from the beginning. I took this class in April of last year. Right away I noticed that my back and hands did not hurt after a few hours of cutting lines, I was not fatigued and was happy about my progress. I was so happy that I started saving for the GRS equiptment which I bought a few months after the class.

I did not learn of the Lindsay equiptment until after I joined this site. I was surprised one day by an e-mail from Steve offering to let me try his Classic out. I accepted and he sent it to me and I can say that it is truely a well built piece of equipment. I did not get to spend as much time with his equipment as I would have liked do to a problem with the foot control. Steve worked over the phone with me and I finally got the foot control to somewhat work, enough for me to get a feel of the hand piece.

Here are my observations:

First the two systems to not function alike because they are different designs. The GRS GraverMach has a control box that has dials and gages for you to readily see your settings which allow you to switch between settings with fair accuracy. The Lindsay system does not have this control box, this system is controlled regulators and pressure gauges which for me being a begginer was a little nerve racking but doable.

Stroke setting the GRS equipment is very simple you just reach over and turn the dial on the control box. With the Lindsay you adjust the handpiece which has no setting marks on it, it has 3 little holes for you to gage by and once you understand how to adjust the hand piece this is not to much of a problem but it is not as easly as turning a dial on the control box.

The GRS hand piece responds very quickly to foot pressure and is dead still prior to applying pressure to the foot pedal. This allows you to set your point on your line then start your cut slowly. The Lindsay hand piece is allready minutely in motion if you have it adjusted correctly which is not to big of a problem but it does take some getting used to. If you have the Lindsay hand piece at a full idle when you start then it has the tendencey to have a dead pause as you apply pressure to the foot pedal then it all of a sudden catches up which I found very unnerving. Now this may have been caused by the problem I was having with the Lindsay foot pedal but I can't say for sure.

I only have the GRS 901 hand piece but for now this covers all my current needs with no modification. I can cut my outlines do background removal and shading without modifing the hand peice. With the Lindsay Classic if I wanted to do background removal I was instructed to remove the standard plunger and put in the Tungston plunger. I viewed this as just an opportunity to screw something up and a unecessary step if using the GRS hand piece.

Quality of construction of both systems are very good and I have found both companies very considerate and willing to help if there were questions or problems.

As far as price goes the Lindsay handpiece is more expensive by a good bit over the GRS hand peice. The balance of the equipment to make the hand pieces work will cost about the same for either system. Either way you go you will have a tidy sum invested before you are through.

Quality of work I performed using both systems was about the same. I used both on one practice plate and if you did not know which I used where you would not be able to tell the difference. So this leads me to believe that it makes no difference which I use they will only perform to my meager capabilities.

The Lindsay will not automactically make you a better engraver nor will the GRS system. They will both help people like me to make better cuts quicker than I could do with the H&C. But they will not make me into an immediate engraving artist - this will take a little time and may be a journey that I never complete but I plan to enjoy it all along the way.

To those of you just starting - it makes no difference which you choose H&C, GRS or Lindsay the best money is spent on good instruction first and equiptment later. The only people that can really tell which system is better are those that are putting great works of art on the forums - and isn't it amazing that a good many of those individuals do not use power asisted gravers but hammer & chisel & push methods.

So again it comes back to - it is not the tool but the person that uses the tool to create the art. The art is in the mind and is transfered using the tool to a canvas that others eyes can view. I am thankful that my eyes can view the great masters work that is freely shown here.

 

[Diacutter]

Personally I think the system 3 gets looked past too often. I have had one for two years now and I LOVE MINE! I feel people don't spend the time to learn how to use it properly. It comes with 3 different springs and you can use between 10 and 80lbs of air pressure. Its like getting 3 different hand pieces. There is also and optional heavy piston if you need extra power or a smoother start up. I would recommend you spend more than 2 minutes with it before you decide it is junk. I have used the gravermate, mach ,max meister and if i had it to do again I would still buy the system 3. The other GRS machines are very nice tools and allow you to add the airtach and other hand pieces... but for the average jeweler or beginning engraver the system 3 is a good choice.

PS Thanks for all the help,ideas and encouragement everyone on this forum has given and shared. This is a great place to hang out and learn.

Dave