Could you give me an example of what you are talking about? There is a wide array of machinist vises.
Also what do you mean by a rubber wheel?
Help, please: New at engraving , need help getting started with a small budget.
- Thread starter jzknives
- Start date
Also what do you mean by a rubber wheel?
silverchip
~ Elite 1000 Member ~
I made this Bowling ball vice/clamp/work holding device for around 75.00 20 yrs ago.It has a couple of attachments to hold different kinds of work.it is filled with lead and weighs in about 65 lbs.
dlilazteca
~ Elite 1000 Member ~
In all reality there can be no such thing as a small budget in my opinion that's what I thought at the beginning and buying one thing after another I'm up to about close to three and a half to four thousand dollars and I'm just starting, and I'm still working on a couple of practice plates have not done a single item yet. You buy what you think is your last item and then you figure out you need something else. Don't be discouraged though people here on the forum have been more than helpful
Carlos De La O III
Carlos De La O III
I know this , what i mean by small budget is not spending 400 dollars on a vice , then another 1700 on a engraver ect.
Hi jzknives,
recently i bought a new microscope, the old one i don't use anymore.
it's a euromex(older model-no zoom)
I used it for about 10 years for stonesettings.
If you have intersse let me know...
i can sell it to you for 100dollar+shipping(i'm in belgium)
Greetz,
Tim wolf
recently i bought a new microscope, the old one i don't use anymore.
it's a euromex(older model-no zoom)
I used it for about 10 years for stonesettings.
If you have intersse let me know...
i can sell it to you for 100dollar+shipping(i'm in belgium)
Greetz,
Tim wolf
silverchip
~ Elite 1000 Member ~
I don't remember what a regulation bowling ball weighs but after cutting off the top and milling it out and inserting the bearing race welded to the 1/4 "plate, I drilled a hole in it and filled it with LEAD.So now it weighs about 65lbs.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
should mine be that heavy? its only around 7 pounds
silverchip
~ Elite 1000 Member ~
Yup, Or at least as heavy as you can make it.Have fun!!!!!
GTJC460
~ Elite 1000 Member ~
Seeing this tread has gone on this long, I figured I post the link to the thread Sam originally referenced.
http://www.engraverscafe.com/showthread.php?13891-Tool-List-for-Beginners
As for work holding, probably one of the easiest and cheapest thing to set up would be the following.
Get a lazy susan/caster type hardware from your local hardware store. Then either with scrap wood or some hardwood make a platform for the lazy Susan. Preferably circular. Then build a wooded box that's at least as tall as your hand plus about 1". Wood glue and screw everything together.
Then to mount your practice plates just crazy-glue them to the top of the box.
This will work really well for pushing a graver. Not so great for H&C.
http://www.engraverscafe.com/showthread.php?13891-Tool-List-for-Beginners
As for work holding, probably one of the easiest and cheapest thing to set up would be the following.
Get a lazy susan/caster type hardware from your local hardware store. Then either with scrap wood or some hardwood make a platform for the lazy Susan. Preferably circular. Then build a wooded box that's at least as tall as your hand plus about 1". Wood glue and screw everything together.
Then to mount your practice plates just crazy-glue them to the top of the box.
This will work really well for pushing a graver. Not so great for H&C.
Marcus Hunt
~ Elite 1000 Member ~
Engraving need not be expensive financially but what you win on the swings you'll lose on the roundabouts. Somewhere along the line dues have to be paid and if its not financially then it will be in your time.
However, two things I would not scrimp on if you're a beginner with no experience or have nobody to teach you; one is tool sharpening and the other is work holding. For many years I worked with a graver set in a handle made from a broomstick, total cost= less than £10 ($15). In fact I could make 2 gravers from 1 blank so the cost was half. I used a loupe for magnification and we hand sharpened in those days.
When I first started my father ordered a Magnablock for me (who remembers those?) and after 2 months of working with a crummy wooden vice (things were shipped surface in the '70s) it arrived. Boy what a difference! My father was so impressed he bought himself one.
You are on a hiding to nothing if a) you can't sharpen your tools (great You Tube vid on hand sharpening btw, Sam) and b) you can't hold your work steady. So there has to be some outlay but you don't need to spend a fortune on air assisted gravers, scopes and powerhones if you have the time and dedication to put into learning to hand push or use a hammer and chisel and hand sharpen but even then a basic Lindsay sharpening system will only cost a couple of hundred dollars.
The trouble is learning the old school way takes time and you are far more likely to give up if you try hand pushing say than if you used an air assisted tool because results take so much longer. For me and others of my era, we had no choice. It was our chosen career path, not a hobby. We knew learning to engrave took a long time but we had no other options really so stuck it out. I really don't know how many people would have the wherewithal to teach themselves with manual tools and stick it out til they get good results nowadays. Good on you if you can but I know that I'd rather not go back to the old ways if possible, although I still hand push my bulino scenes.
However, two things I would not scrimp on if you're a beginner with no experience or have nobody to teach you; one is tool sharpening and the other is work holding. For many years I worked with a graver set in a handle made from a broomstick, total cost= less than £10 ($15). In fact I could make 2 gravers from 1 blank so the cost was half. I used a loupe for magnification and we hand sharpened in those days.
When I first started my father ordered a Magnablock for me (who remembers those?) and after 2 months of working with a crummy wooden vice (things were shipped surface in the '70s) it arrived. Boy what a difference! My father was so impressed he bought himself one.
You are on a hiding to nothing if a) you can't sharpen your tools (great You Tube vid on hand sharpening btw, Sam) and b) you can't hold your work steady. So there has to be some outlay but you don't need to spend a fortune on air assisted gravers, scopes and powerhones if you have the time and dedication to put into learning to hand push or use a hammer and chisel and hand sharpen but even then a basic Lindsay sharpening system will only cost a couple of hundred dollars.
The trouble is learning the old school way takes time and you are far more likely to give up if you try hand pushing say than if you used an air assisted tool because results take so much longer. For me and others of my era, we had no choice. It was our chosen career path, not a hobby. We knew learning to engrave took a long time but we had no other options really so stuck it out. I really don't know how many people would have the wherewithal to teach themselves with manual tools and stick it out til they get good results nowadays. Good on you if you can but I know that I'd rather not go back to the old ways if possible, although I still hand push my bulino scenes.
GTJC460
~ Elite 1000 Member ~
I agree 100% with Marcus. The only reason I suggest the wooden lazy susan is for the sheer cost.
On large trays I use something similar to what I mentioned in my prior post. It does work, but I wouldn't trade or sell my magnablock, standard or micro blocks.
I could also throw away all my other sharpening templates and aids, but I'd fight you tooth and nail if you tried to take my dual angle fixture.
On large trays I use something similar to what I mentioned in my prior post. It does work, but I wouldn't trade or sell my magnablock, standard or micro blocks.
I could also throw away all my other sharpening templates and aids, but I'd fight you tooth and nail if you tried to take my dual angle fixture.
Marcus Hunt
~ Elite 1000 Member ~
Sharpening templates are great and fast to use but you are locked into them. You can't make subtle variations that might work better for you as you can with a dual angle fixture. It's more of a learning curve getting used to one but if I could only have the one sharpening system it'd be dual angle all the way but for just the price of the fixture you also get the bench stones with the Lindsay system. Another "you pay your money and make your choice" situation!
K you guys have been super helpful!
Today I think I learned the importance of sharpening . Today was the first time i really gave a good 10 or so minutes sharpening my single square graver (with my ghetto crooked crocker sharpener which i like but would like better if it was straight) and it really does make the difference in cutting quality.
I still slip alot but not nearly as much as when i first started , you can definately tell the difference between a sharp graver and a dulling one. What i have not caught onto yet is at what point a graver starts dulling down after sharpening it.
I am also now seeing the importance of having a ROTATING holder for scrollwork. I was going to set up the bowling ball but im wondering if its too much work for too little improvement.
Should I figure out the bowling ball or should I throw some money towards a USA made vice?
If so is a microblock "enough" or will i be kicking myself to get a standard size later?
Keep in mind I want to eventually engrave knives.
Today I think I learned the importance of sharpening . Today was the first time i really gave a good 10 or so minutes sharpening my single square graver (with my ghetto crooked crocker sharpener which i like but would like better if it was straight) and it really does make the difference in cutting quality.
I still slip alot but not nearly as much as when i first started , you can definately tell the difference between a sharp graver and a dulling one. What i have not caught onto yet is at what point a graver starts dulling down after sharpening it.
I am also now seeing the importance of having a ROTATING holder for scrollwork. I was going to set up the bowling ball but im wondering if its too much work for too little improvement.
Should I figure out the bowling ball or should I throw some money towards a USA made vice?
If so is a microblock "enough" or will i be kicking myself to get a standard size later?
Keep in mind I want to eventually engrave knives.
Marcus Hunt
~ Elite 1000 Member ~
Forget the micro block unless you're a stone setter. It's too small and like for engraving purposes.
GTJC460
~ Elite 1000 Member ~
Depending on what you ultimately want to engrave, the standard or magnablock is the way to go. If you look at my signature you will see I am first and foremost a jeweler. I only use the micro block on small jewelry items. It doesn't have enough mass for doing bigger objects.
If you want to ultimately want to do guns or knives or anything of size, I'd go magnablock.
If you want to ultimately want to do guns or knives or anything of size, I'd go magnablock.
Kevin Scott
Elite Cafe Member
Check with jewelry stores that have been around for awhile and ask if they have an engraving ball vice or other engraving tools that they want to sell. There are far less jewelry engravers around than there were in the 1960's and earlier, and for the most part their tools are still good. Same as today, many people 50 years ago bought engraving tools etc with the plan to become full time engravers, but things did not work out, and their tools are like new. And quality engraving vices with many miles on them still work great. I have bought about 5 vices for $50 or under. Resold them on Ebay. Have also sold about 40 unused gravers on Ebay. Also have sold some sharpening equipment for a decent profit. If I sold all the stuff I don't use or plan to use in the future, my total investment in engraving books, tools, supplies, practice plates and knives etc would be less than zero. About $500 to $1000 profit, and be left with a very well equipped (but no air power) shop with a very good library, great sharpening systems and plenty of practice material. I would not be left with just homemade and flawed tools. Bought plenty of stuff at full or new price. And that is without selling any of my engraving work.
The point is, you can do push or hammer and chisel engraving (non professionally) at a very low cost.
But don't buy junk even if it is dirt cheap, and don't waste time reinventing the wheel. Look for quality stuff, and consider its resale value. Quality engraving equipment bought new has a very good resale percentage. Quality used tools bought at fair price you can break even. But it does take time and energy to resell stuff.
But this approach does take time, and is not for everyone. One of the reasons it has worked for me is because I am in the vintage watch business, including buying and selling watch tools, and doing vintage watch repairs. So in the course of that, I stumble on engraving tools that I can make money on. What has also helped me is living in a large old established city that at one time had many people working in the jewelry and watch trade.
Brand new good diamond laps and diamond stones on Ebay are so inexpensive there is no reason to try to buy used. You can buy good sharpening tools and equipment like a power hone and sharpening fixtures used at about a 20 to 30% discount, but it takes time to find deals. May not be worth it. Older sharpening fixtures like the Croker tool are too flawed to waste time and money on, no matter how cheap they are. Only buy GRS, Lindsay or Hamler fixtures, even if you have to buy new.
The point is, you can do push or hammer and chisel engraving (non professionally) at a very low cost.
But don't buy junk even if it is dirt cheap, and don't waste time reinventing the wheel. Look for quality stuff, and consider its resale value. Quality engraving equipment bought new has a very good resale percentage. Quality used tools bought at fair price you can break even. But it does take time and energy to resell stuff.
But this approach does take time, and is not for everyone. One of the reasons it has worked for me is because I am in the vintage watch business, including buying and selling watch tools, and doing vintage watch repairs. So in the course of that, I stumble on engraving tools that I can make money on. What has also helped me is living in a large old established city that at one time had many people working in the jewelry and watch trade.
Brand new good diamond laps and diamond stones on Ebay are so inexpensive there is no reason to try to buy used. You can buy good sharpening tools and equipment like a power hone and sharpening fixtures used at about a 20 to 30% discount, but it takes time to find deals. May not be worth it. Older sharpening fixtures like the Croker tool are too flawed to waste time and money on, no matter how cheap they are. Only buy GRS, Lindsay or Hamler fixtures, even if you have to buy new.
dlilazteca
~ Elite 1000 Member ~
Lol... that's exactly what is going to happen... when and if you get bit...its all over
Carlos De La O III
glstrcowboy
Elite Cafe Member
Ifyou plan to get into hammer and chisel work, you may want to consider a foot-turned vise before you put a lot of effort into making/finding a standard bench mount vise. There is quite a learning curve (heard that before?), but it is faster than stopping and adjusting the workpiece with your hands.
tundratrekers@mtaonline.n
Elite Cafe Member
STOP BUYING TOOLS !!!!!!!
Get Lynton McKenzie Beginning Engraving DVD,from Brownells.
He will SHOW you everything you need to do it all your self,CHEAP !!!!!.
michael
Get Lynton McKenzie Beginning Engraving DVD,from Brownells.
He will SHOW you everything you need to do it all your self,CHEAP !!!!!.
michael
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